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How To Optimize Ad Campaigns for Profitability With William Harris of Elumynt

Joshua Chin 12:05

What are you building William to help you make these decisions are are decent bunch of Excel sheets that we don’t see behind the scenes, like a super sophisticated system of a web of an interlinked web of Google Sheets? Or is there like a fancy AI tool that you’re using? A

William Harris 12:23

little bit of both, we start with some carrier pigeons that we just have fly out. I’m just kidding, though, yeah. But there are some tools that we’ve used some people, some of our customers are using a tool actually called profit metrics. And it’s a really great tool that you can use to help with this. Otherwise, there’s, like you said, Google Sheets, we can bring it in. Sometimes customers have this data already within their Shopify back end, and they have the cogs set up in there, which is really nice when they do that. Other times, they’re working with other types of like pimp software or something like that. They’re using maybe like ChannelAdvisor, or something where they have all of their cost of goods sold within there, or NetSuite. And so it really depends on kind of where customer’s data is pulled in. But then yeah, we pull that data in through either the Google Sheets or wherever we’re getting that into Power BI. And then there’s some software that we’ve written that allows us to take that and send it into the different places that we need to in the way that we need to

Joshua Chin 13:20

seeing, from a visualization point of view, how, how often are you passing that on to your clients and say, hey, look, dashboard? Or are you keeping that yourselves and your team and making those positions that come to your clients and say, Alright, these are the decisions, and this is why you don’t need to know what the data, what the dashboard looks like, because that’s going to confuse the heck out of you. Where are you at in that in that process?

William Harris 13:48

Yeah, that’s a really interesting thing. So I like people having the ability to have access to that as much of the data from that as possible. And so we do have massively just robust metric reports that they can look at within Power BI that our customers can see. So the data is available there for them. That said, I’d say we try to do like a dance where you figure out which customers liked that information and which don’t, right, and I’m sure that you see this a lot of times in like the email that you’re doing, you know, there’s analysis paralysis, if you give a customer too much information, then they just won’t make a decision. And the same thing happens within business too. If you just inundate people with too much information, then they can’t actually figure out what steps to take to move forward. Even though you think that you’ve lined it out really nicely. So to your point, there are some customers where it’s like, you know, what are the three or four things that they need to know in order for them to say, Yep, looks good, sounds good. Let’s move forward. And then you have other customers, though, where it’s a very different dance in there. They want to have that information. And I’m thinking of a customer in Singapore where the reports that we were sending out to them on a daily basis are so were significantly more robust versus a Another customer that we have that, you know, think there’s one customer, we may end up actually getting on a phone call with them once a quarter because they’re they’re of the mindset. They’re like, I don’t want to know anything about this. It looks good. It’s making more money, keep doing it. And they’re like, I don’t want to be involved in that. Right. So I think it’s just figuring out that dance.

Joshua Chin 15:18

That makes us that makes sense. I’ve, I think I’ve, I may have asked you this before, but how did you end up with a client all the way out in Singapore? And you’re, you’re based in Minneapolis?

William Harris 15:35

Yeah, yep, Minnesota? That’s a good question. I’m trying to remember actually, where we ended up connecting with them at first, if I remember correctly, they ended up coming to us, just through our website. That was several years ago. But they they came to us to our website. And if I remember correctly, the reason why they had reached out to us in the first place was they saw some things I think that I had posted in the Shopify Plus channel on Facebook. So there’s the Shopify Plus merchants channel. And there’s some things that I had posted in there, right. And I like to try and post in there and help people out, although I haven’t posted in there as often as I used to, just gotten busy. But I think if I remember correctly, they said that they had seen some things we were talking about along these lines of, you know, profitability and optimizing around that. And, and the owner of this company reached out and said, that’s exactly what we’ve been looking for. We’ve we’ve run down this path with other people who are, you know, quite happy spending the money, but it turns out, it’s not profitably spent. And so, you know, we need somebody that’s focused on like, what our goal is, which is profit. So

Joshua Chin 16:39

thanks, that makes a lot of sense. Like, like I said, common sense, but may not be may not be the most common. What are the you’re you’re fairly active on on on social and you’re fairly, fairly active on the on conferences, and speaking at events? What are some of the most commonly held viewpoints that you hear about, or see or read, that you disagree with? And this face,

William Harris 17:10

oh, that’s, that’s a good one. Because I feel like there’s a lot of things that I run into where people say one thing, and I think that they’ve done it, just because they’ve let’s just say they’ve tested it, and they found success with it. And so they assume that that must be true for a lot of other things, without understanding the basics of how, let’s say, algorithms can work or can’t work. And one of the things that I think that I’ve seen before with this is the idea of, let’s say, running, you know, hundreds of new creative through an account all at once. I like advanced, I like accelerated creative testing, I like the idea of being able to test out lots of different creative, I think that’s a great thing to do. But you have to look at that based on your budget, itself, how much is your cost, or your customer acquisition cost, so you can figure out whether or not you’ve spent enough to even know whether or not this anything to this creator or not. And so what we found, though, is that sometimes people will put so much through this, just to see what’s happening. And there’s like a penny spent here or a penny spent there. And so it’s like, what was that wasn’t a really good effective test. And so one of the things that I really like is any, you look at all the creatives, and you’ll see these, let’s say that they’re, you know, they’re 98%, the exact same ad, with just a couple of tweaks here and there, and here and there, that’s fine. But I don’t think that that’s gonna usually be the thing that’s going to radically find that big win that you’re looking for. And so what I like to talk about is thoughtful creative testing. And so I still think it’s fine to test out lots of new creatives, but let’s say 20 really interesting net new creatives, instead of 100 creatives that are just tiny little variations of one creative, if that makes sense. So that’s one that I

Joshua Chin 18:59

write. So let’s unpack that a little bit. Sure, I get that. From the point of view of, if you have a if you have a really tiny budget or relative relative to the volume of creatives that you’re trying to test, say you’re spending 100 bucks a day. And that’s split across 20 creatives. And your cost per acquisition, on average is, say, really, really high like 40 bucks, that’s going to take you eight days, on average, to acquire a single customer from a single ad, which makes absolutely no sense when you’re thinking about high frequency testing. So I suppose the cure to that would be either to up your spend, and be a little bit more aggressive on the testing phase. Or maybe just test a few creatives at once and gain a lot more insights that way. Now, I want to pick your mind at this point. How’d you decide? And what’s your process on testing. And when when it comes to creatives, the nature of it, it’s it’s a little bit different from, you know, testing an email creative, because we can attribute exactly what happens in an email to specific actions that that occur based on the clicks setup happen and where those clicks occur. But what’s going on with ad creatives?

William Harris 20:30

There’s a number of different ways that we like to test ad creatives within accounts. And I guess a lot of this comes down to just to like an internal algorithm that we have built out for where a customer is at within their journey. So let’s say that a particular customer is at a four to one return. And that’s breakeven for them, right? Like they’re, they’re right there. You can’t dedicate as much towards testing as you would like to. And so you because you just actually have to make sure that it’s performance. And one of the things that people have to forget is that a lot of people forget when it comes to testing on an ad budget is you’re guaranteeing that one or the other is less performance. You’re so so let’s say that you’re saying it, let’s say that you need to be at a four to one, and you start spending money on a test, you’re guaranteeing that either the current performance, or the test is less performance than what you need it to be, if that makes sense, right. So one of them is going to be less performed in the other. And so if it happens to be that you earmark 10%, for a test fine, if your mark 25%, for test is less performant than the other one, then you have wasted 25% of your ad budget. That’s a pretty significant chunk, right. And so that’s why I say if somebody is, you know, borderline where they need to be, we can’t earmark as much for testing in order to be as aggressive in what you’re testing out. So you might have to say, maybe you don’t test out as many net new creatives, because you’re testing it out on a smaller amount of budget. I like to test out creatives, ideally, in the context that I want to see if they perform. And so if I’m trying to acquire the purchase, ideally, I want to test them out within the context that I want where I want to optimize that for purchase. And the biggest reason for that is because you get have a test of a particular creative that just crushes it from a click brace perspective, right. But when you actually look at the performance on whether or not it’s driving the bottom of funnel result that you want the actual purchase, it’s not keeping up with that. And so if you test it with the wrong goal, you’re not going to get that now where they will change on that is if your budget is so low. And your CAC is like you said, $40. And you’re like, look, you’re getting one purchase every eight days or something ridiculous here one purchase every other day, it’s Facebook’s never going to have the ability to really effectively optimize that. And so you’re you’re you’re not really giving it the best shot. And so it may be in those situations worthwhile to say, Well, what’s that goal, you can go above that? How about optimizing for Add to Cart optimizing for click optimizing, even for reach just to see if you can get something to spend on that ad and see what happens. So there are ways to where you can increment based on that based on where you’re at for budget. So a lot of that would depend on if you’re a smaller customer, you know, maybe you don’t have as much budget, we may need to go a little bit higher up on that. But ultimately, the goal that I’m trying to look at is if I can get thoughtful with those creatives, then we can test something a little bit more purposeful. And you’re usually going to find some some better wins there that are more significant. And what I mean by this is, if you test out just all of those different tiny little variations, what you oftentimes will see is maybe there’s like this tiny little bump in performance, we see this all the time where it’s like, Oh, this one outperformed by 5% this week, but if you kept running it, it doesn’t perform by 5% More than next week, and then it maybe it is it. So it goes back and forth. And so you haven’t actually found or learned anything, you may even take away this learning from this. And that copy thinking that copy was better, when really it wasn’t any better. It just happened to be that it was new. And so there was less fatigue on it. But as soon as it went on for a week ran for a week, now it’s got some fatigue behind that ad. And it’s no different than the other ones. And it’s actually maybe a little bit less performance. And so versus a thoughtful one. Ideally, you’re looking for movement that’s a little bit more significant. So when I’m testing creative, I’m not always looking for just like those tiny little incremental wins, although those are important. I’m looking for something that’s going to change it in substantial ways. An example of this, there was a customer we had their their cost required customer I think was about $12. And then when we were able to add in this new creative for them, same audience, same campaign, everything’s identical just adding this ad into that that campaign. The new cost to acquire customer with that ad was $1.43. That’s a massive difference. And so those are the kinds of movements that I like to see from thoughtful creative testing. So you can do both, but I think that a lot of times we find false wins or false losses. When we do like this hyper accelerated testing with minimal budget. I think that we end up making a lot of just wrong inferences based on incomplete data.

Joshua Chin 24:59

Right At what point do you make a decision? Or do you use a tool like a significance calculator? To make that choice?

William Harris 25:09

Yeah, it again, it’s gonna depend on the size of the client. So if you’re a small client, I probably can’t want it to statistical significance. If you do, like, you just never gonna be able to test anything out, right? If you’re testing one new ad out for every three months or something, and that’s not worthwhile either. And so there is a gut assumption that goes into this as well, where you say, Okay, do we have enough data to feel good about moving this? Now let’s go and move that into a more permanent position within the campaigns assuming that we’ve nailed this and saying that it’s good. And if something changes, now that it’s in like the permanent position within the actual main campaigns, then now maybe we need to, you know, turn that on or off based on that. But yes, for bigger customers, we have the ability to run some tests a little bit longer to statistical significance, I like to run that. I also like to run some tests a little bit longer even beyond that, not just seeing like, which one’s better at acquiring the customer right now, here and then, but which one’s better at acquiring the right customer over the next three to six to 12 months, right. And so this came from a really good SAS background in understanding of these things. But let’s just say that you and I were running a test on an ad campaign. And we find out that people in Minnesota, this is a dumb idea. But this would never happen. People in Minnesota spend five times more than people in California or something, right? It’s just like massive difference. Well, because you could solve it with targeting, but let’s just say that you can’t solve it with targeting, you say, okay, great, I’m gonna go out, I’m just gonna acquire these customers and I get, I find an ad that’s just crushing it in terms of getting me a whole bunch of customers from California for let’s say, 50%, less than I’m getting them from from Minnesota. The problem is, it’s not just a 2x difference in time in terms of the LTV from Minnesota, it’s a 5x difference. And so that one ad might be resonating more to get a lower cost of customer acquisition cost, but it’s not getting the the customer that I really want. Whereas maybe the other ad, maybe I’m getting a little bit higher customer acquisition cost out of that ad. But it’s getting me you know, significantly more customers from Minnesota, which have a five times LTV, that’s the kind of things that I like to look at, sometimes with these creative tests as well, not just which ones acquiring you the most immediate purchase, but which ones acquiring the right purchases.

Joshua Chin 27:23

Talking about LTV, I’ve recently had a really interesting conversation with a friend slash client of mine. And he’s done really well. He’s pretty under underground, not really peering all that much. But he he makes a couple million bucks in revenue a month. And throughout his, his journey, he’s gone through multiple phases, and he is off the belief that you have to break even on the first purchase on a on a blended average type of perspective, not you may not be breaking even from just Facebook. But in totality, that first acquisition of a customer should allow you to break even on all of your spend all of your ad spend. And that is a contrarian view to how the bigger ecommerce companies, especially the ones that are public, and surely fostering the poster boys of ecommerce, like Warby Parker, think about breakeven LTV and returns, they think about returns from the perspective of how much am I getting per customer in lifetime value over a certain period of time. And I’m taking that in comparison to my ad costs. And I’m seeing a return on lifetime. But the challenge of that is that there’s something that my friend brought up. The challenge with that is that you’re you’re not going to know when LTV comes to fruition. You’re not going to know if market conditions and your assumptions are going to remain the same six months 12 months down the road. And so what your initial assumption of what LTV would be in 12 months, may be extended to 24 months. And for those reasons, you’re going to have to need an incredible amount of cash float to keep doing what you’re doing to keep acquiring customers and it’s extremely unsustainable and that’s what a lot of DTC companies in the space are facing at the moment.

William Harris 29:48

Yep. So I agree with your friend in a lot of contexts. One, we’ve seen a lot of DTC brands that got too crazy on this and I’d say they almost went with like San Francisco approached right where it was, like, let’s just pump all the money into this. And we’re not worried about this in the you know, it could be a 24 month payback period, right. And you’re just like, I mean, this is massive. And there’s, there’s a lot of truth to this. And so the one thing that I would say I don’t want to do, right off here is, if you have that VC money, if you have the ability to float that it still might be bad, you’ve gained a significant market share over your competitors, to where Yeah, we were, I’d say most of us are willing to say that we are in a recession, whether we call it that or not. And I think that it’s actually gonna get a little bit worse yet, and 2023 for most of us. But if you can, if you have the cash to ride through that with and you happen to have that customer base, now, you can come out of the other side of this in a really good position. And so that might not necessarily be the worst thing in the world. Where I look at this, though, one thing that I like about what your friend said, is looking at not just are you breaking even on Facebook, but are you breaking even across all those channels, that’s where we really like to look at like the NVR. It’s like this, you know, level set kind of thing, where a lot of times we’ll share Facebook to credit for it, Google took credit for that sale, email took credit for the sale, right, they all took credit for the sale, but it was just one sale. And so when you get this level set, that is the really nice thing about something like NVR, or something like that. So I agree with him the idea, it’s like you should be looking at like these holistic approaches. But the one thing to your friend’s benefit is during a potential for a bear market or or any type of market swing that’s going to have it Yes, you are more at risk for that. But the difference there is, you’re also putting yourself at risk by allowing your competitor to gobble up your market share as well. You know, there’s there’s pros and cons to both. The one thing that I would say, in favor of still going a little bit aggressive, though is finding that sweet spot where you’re not putting the business on the line. And so we don’t like to use LTV as much as what we sometimes use maybe a three month LTV, a four month LTV a six month LTV, what is that number that you feel comfortable with, you know, to where you say, what is that amount of time that you’re willing to wait to break even on a customer now, if you say I’m willing to go to six months, well, that may be optimized for three months, because then you have that buffer in there that says like, I don’t have to break even on you know, purchase one, I need to break even by purchase six, if I plan to break even by purchase three or by month three, then then I’m at least giving myself the aggressiveness that I need to be, you know, making sure that I’m going up capturing the markets. But I’ve also got this buffer for when things don’t work the way that I’m hoping that they do.

Joshua Chin 32:47

That’s smart. Well, then let’s take a quick segue. I know that you have a huge amount of many passions. And we spoke about this. And you have a like for people watching this on YouTube, you have an amazing condenser mic, you look great. And you have this nice background that I’m if you if you look at the like the left hand side of my room over here, there’s a little bit of a backdrop. The reason for that is I’ve gotten so many comments on how white I look on on camera, because of how terrible my lighting conditions are. But anyways, that’s a quick side note, I’m learning as well. How do you? How do you think about your life in and I know that you’re a musician? How do you split your life between your passions and your work? And you’re clearly very passionate about DDC and what you do at work as well. How do you split your time? And what is the is there a club cross pollination of learnings that’s happening? Yeah,

William Harris 33:57

that’s good. I’m not gonna let you off the hook on on real quick the lighting stuff, though, because, you know, you’re saying about your lighting or whatever, please still? No, no, no, yeah. Like, I think that you’re doing a great job to you at least have some extra lights in there to bring into your shot, which I think is a really good thing that the number of times that you get on video calls with people and, you know, it’s like, they’ve got like a window behind them. And they’re completely just a silhouette or whatever. And you’re like, I actually can’t see your face at all right now. I don’t know if you’re there, or your eyes closed. So but yeah, as far as like, you know, splitting my time and everything. It’s, it’s hard. And I think anybody who’s an entrepreneur will say the exact same thing that if you want to be at the top of any field, you almost have to be deficient in other areas. And so I think about somebody who is in, let’s say, an Olympic sport, right? If they’re going to be the absolute best runner, they likely are deficient at something else. I don’t know what that is, but there’s something else that they’re significantly deficient in. Because there has to be almost like this balance or this compensation, even if you think about, you know, the bell curve, it’s one of my favorite illustrations for everything. But it’s like, if you’re perfectly balanced, then you’re just right in the middle of a bell curve. But if you’re extremely to one side of that bell curve, then there’s an imbalance on the other side of that. And so if you’re extremely gifted in one area, you’re usually lacking in something else. And so I’d say that, you know, what’s likely true is give yourself grace. As a CEO, it’s something that I’ve had to learn myself, which is, there are a lot of other things that I would like to do, or that I am also passionate about that I maybe don’t pursue as much now because of the very real responsibility of what I am doing here. And so just reminding myself that it’s like, you know, what, though, but what I’m doing is, is a net benefit for a lot of people. And so there’s the benefit of my own team, my own employees, our customers, their customers, families, right, like, like that their employees, their employees, families, I mean, this extends so far into, like the overall health of what you’re trying to do. So I think giving myself grace and giving others grace, but then it’s also I’d say, figuring out how you can merge those passions, like you were saying, into what you’re doing. And so one of my passions is math and statistics, and just number theory itself. And so I like to study some of that stuff on my own just to enjoy, there’s a lot of things even within, you know, string string theory that I really appreciate, and enjoy and read up on what you would think, well, what does string theory have to do with advertising? Well, a lot more than you would think. And without going into, you know, the nitty gritties of that, and losing people on this call. The idea here is, you know, in fact, there’s a couple of articles I’ve written on our blog ones about Simpsons paradox, and how that relates to advertising. I don’t know that I’ve seen anybody else write about that before. It’s a really interesting statistical analysis thing and other What about Bayes theorem and how we’ve applied that and so even music and, you know, I brought up sports, it’s like, well, basketball, that was a passion of mine. I don’t play basketball as much as I used to, but I’ve got kids now, and they’re getting into basketball. And so it’s back in the court there and, you know, watching them and, and so it’s like, okay, well, what are the different illustrations and things that I can use that to apply to what I’m doing? And I think that’s the way that you continue to bring that back in is you might not necessarily have those same things you were doing before? How do you take those passions that you have in other areas and apply them to what you’re currently doing? And I think that allows you to have, you know, a toe in both worlds, if that makes sense.

Joshua Chin 37:33

William, what are you deficient in right now? And are you intentional with it? Oh, that’s

William Harris 37:39

a good question. Um, to be to be fair, it goes in, let’s say, seasonality is depending on, you know, what’s going on within the business. And right now we’re in a, we’re in an interesting spot, where we’ve actually told a couple of customers that they need to readjust their yearly projections based on what we’re seeing in the market, and what we think is going to be realistic for them. So that means that they’re pulling back on adspend, which means that, you know, I’m spending more time doing a few other things that I maybe would have liked to have done in terms of just like looking at, like, you know, their businesses, our businesses, more time spent on on different tasks. So the thing that I’m probably the most efficient at right now, as of you know, the last couple months here is my workout, I’m not working out as much as I would like to as much as I used to. And so something I got to get back into it, there was a really good I don’t remember who it was it said this, but somebody that I remember seeing on tick tock, no less, talking about how it’s like all of your other goals depend on whether or not like you’re alive, like and healthy enough to do the work, right. And so it’s like, I can’t meet any of these years, if I’m in a hospital bed, right or whatever. So, so that’s a good one. The other thing that I’d say that I am, you know, admittedly go through deficiencies in some times would be some of those hobbies, right? Where it’s like, okay, I don’t have as much time to do this during that period of time, but I need to do this within the business. Um, but then there are other times where you say, okay, great, now I’m able to do these hobbies. And maybe I’m maybe I’m a little bit deficient on date nights with my wife and I go, Okay, wait a minute. No, I gotta refocus. reprioritize nope, date night, we’re gonna do that. And I might be deficient on Hobbies, okay, but now I’m doing that. And I’m not helping my kids with their homework. And so it’s like, okay, wait a minute, come back, refocus. And the way that I like to approach it is, and this is where I’d say that you’re always going to be deficient in some area of this and it just trying to figure out how you do the best you can. But there’s a really good concept about I think I first heard about this through Eos, if you’re familiar EOS traction, yeah. But it’s, you know, the rocks. And so the illustration that they use is, you know, if you put the sand in, and then the pebbles and then the rocks, like there’s not enough room in the vase for the rocks. Yeah. If you put the rocks in, and then the pebbles and then the sand and then the water. It’s like it all fits in and it’s the same amount of stuff. And so trying to at least say to myself, what are the things and I’ve done this a number of times, right write it down and what are the things are the most important to me? In life right now, what are my rocks? Right? And they’re just like you do this for business, but then also do this for personal life and say, Okay, how do I schedule those things? First and foremost, says, like, look, even if everything’s burning around us, like, these are the things that you got to do, right? And then you can say, okay, great Now fit the pebbles into those other things. And and so as long as I tried to do that, that I’d say that I’m usually good within the rocks. But the rock, remember might not be or I’m not working out five days a week anymore. Maybe I’m only working out three days a week, I’m still working out, right? And I think it’s that same kind of concept. You say, Okay, what is the what is the minimum level number of engagement that I need to make sure that this still maintains it being a rock in my life, but there are other things that do need to be also dealt with? Yeah,

Joshua Chin 40:43

yeah, I fully appreciate that. And my first mentor told me that exact same idea around a year, he used the analogy of a cooking stove, with like, maybe four or five flames that you can have like four or five burners, right, and it’s kind of like life, you can have maybe one on full blast, the second one on like medium heat, and the rest are going to be low flame or completely switched off. And you have to be conscious about what flames you burn, and what burners you switch off. Because then you you know, what you’re getting yourself into and, and you’re prepared for the consequences of, of doing so. And seasonality is it’s also a matter of seasons. And we go through kind of like ebbs and flows in our lives. And some seasons are just a lot more focused on work. And I, you know, over the past weekend, I was super last week, I was super stressed out and from everything that was going on, in mostly in work. And when it came to the weekend, I was struggling to find a way to fully unwind and just relax. And that that’s when I realized that one of my deficiencies is that I just don’t have, I just don’t put enough, I have zero allocation to my interest in hobbies outside of work very minimal. To the point where if someone came to me and said, What do you do for fun? And what do you do to relax? I always feel like, I don’t know, I genuinely don’t know, at this point in time. I don’t know. So, you know, that’s, that’s just, I guess, part of the journey.

William Harris 42:44

Yeah. And that’s very real. Have you to admit that to right. And I think that that’s, that’s why I try to admit that here as well. I feel like entrepreneurs need to hear that you’re not the only one struggling with that. I went did a yoga class actually, just last week, and the guy that was running the yoga class, he owns the yoga studio and everything he owns actually suffer restaurants, right? Like, like, very, like he’s doing really well. But, you know, he was like, What are you here for? It’s like me, I’m just here to kind of loosen up a little bit of stress that I’ve got going on here, right? Like, there’s a lot of things going on. And he said, Tell me about it. He’s like, I teach this crap. I had to laugh at it. Because he’s talking about, you know, yoga, and just that idea of is like, I mean, I teach this, but I’m also he said, you know, he said the exact same thing. He’s like, I feel like I, I don’t do anything for me anymore. Right? And he was like, and I’m, I’m unbalanced as well. And it’s like, it’s very common, it’s very easy. But again, remembering that idea of like, cycles and everything. And so I like that, you know, I think my hands going up into the right for you right now it’s up into the left for me, but for at least Yeah, viewers and stuff. So it is that idea. And we see this within let’s just say campaign performance, we see this in life as well. But it’s like, you have ups and downs and and ups and downs and ups and downs and ups. And you just see them in like a small window of time, all you see is that one up and down, maybe up and down, up and down. You don’t see that, like the overall progress of where it goes. And sometimes I have to remind myself when I pull back and even just look at my business over the last instead of like, instead of even like quarters, like look over the last several years, and it’s like, oh, wow, we’re in a wildly different spot than we were there. And it’s like, yeah, this quarter might be a bad quarter or this, you know, whatever it might be, whatever, you know, this week or whatever. Yeah, but look at the look at the big picture. And this is true for our personal lives, too. And you might say it’s like, oh, sure, you might be having a quarter, you might even have a bad year in terms of like, hobbies and what makes Josh Josh right. But then it’s like, but look at your life overall as a whole and it’s like, you know, okay, but over the course of a decade, is Josh still progressing towards the things that he believes are what makes him him, you know, within his core, and it’s like, I think oftentimes, that can be true and if it’s not, then that’s where you say, Okay, well, I got a schedule that in there, and it might still be in a minimum scale, right? It might still be it was like, Hey, I’m just gonna work out two days a week it might be I’m gonna work out one day a week, whatever that whatever that is. It’s like but this is a Rox, I want to start doing it at least this much now, and I can always get better at it.

Joshua Chin 45:05

I love that have grace, especially for yourself. And that’s a great place to end the conversation. William, thank you so much for being on the show and for people listening. Interested in learning more about what you do and wanting to connect, where should you go to? Yeah, thanks, Josh. Great to have you here. Where should it go to if they want to connect and learn more about what you do?

William Harris 45:29

Oh, yeah. Yeah, LinkedIn is fine. bestplaces actually just go to Elumynt spelled elumynt.com. Otherwise, you know, I’m on Twitter too, which is just @Wmharris101. Yeah, LinkedIn, they can find me as well. There’s a billion William Harriss, though, so it’s pretty easy to go to either Twitter or the website.

Joshua Chin 45:54

Awesome. William, thank you for being on the show. Thanks for having me.

Outro 46:04

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