Valentin Radu 9:00
Yeah, there are many campaigns that you can run. It’s all of course, starting with the customer research. For instance, there are many CPG brands out there, we which are being fooled into believing that more money for the nuts is going to be equal with a steady growth which is which is not true. And is not true, because most of the companies which the CPG for instance, the CPGs, which are launched out there, they don’t know if if they’ve reached a product market fit yet. However, they pour money into ads without knowing if the customers are actually happy about their product. And like the product that they are selling or if the customers are actually consuming that product. So they pull money more to remarket and to destroy their margins in with discounts so that the customers will buy more without even knowing if the customers are happy again. So we have a full cycle which is nice being completed by, from my perspective, eight out of 10 CPGs out there are not completing this circle, because it’s crazy to invest money to acquire customers that never come back. So one strategy that you’re seeing is to implement the NPS, and to get feedback from the best customers in real time, and to treat those, let’s say issues in real time. So we have this integration with gorgeous, and we have like a scenario, we have the pre delivery NPS, then we have the post delivery NPS. And after we get the the post delivery, NPs finding out, if the customers are detractors, why they stayed up, the chances to buy again, or zero out of 10. So yeah, any kind of marketing you can do out there is not going to make some miracles happen, right? Because if you’ve been disappointed, you’re not gonna come back. So based on these type of activities, we are leveraging the customer service to do the job of the market, which is fantastic, because this is turning the customer support from a cost center to a profit center, right? If you shoot the issues, you can expect for customers to come back. So that’s one use case, there are a lot of them. And I can, I can emphasize some more if
Joshua Chin 11:18
you judge, I love I love, I love the approach of taking kind of direct feedback from the customer, because that’s exactly what we try and do as a as a mock is very much trying to get feedback from the market, and then work off that data to create campaigns that work even better. But what, you know, I don’t have a lot of experience with this. But what’s the what’s the average percentage of responses that you get from from surveys? Do people? Do you see a majority of people clicking away and not responding at all? And how do you account for that segment of people who don’t? Yeah,
Valentin Radu 11:56
that’s a great question. We are we are now working on having a statistical significance calculator embedded in. So that’s
Joshua Chin 12:07
it, I love it. I love it. Yeah. So we are
Valentin Radu 12:11
we are, we are also not noticing you that, Hey, you, your NPS is around 52. But also need 42 more responses to do to rely on on this data. So one interesting aspect, for instance, is to, to look to hit something like 10% response rate on the post delivery and this and something like 30% on the pre delivery NPS. So the pre delivery and as it’s being placed on the thank you page, because the customers over there, they have some questions in their heads. So maybe you want to make them feel relieved about their their purchase and buy. If you treat the question that they have something like that this is going to get in time to me have I done the right decision. And you can treat these objections with testimonials with some peace of mind announcements, like we usually ship it in maximum three days or stuff like that. And then you ask them, What are the chances for them to recommend your brand to their peers? So doing increase the response rate? I am strongly I strongly believe that you need to diversify the channels if you are using the email only for the post delivery and Bs I mean, you you should diversify the channels and other channels that you can consider our package inserts. Yeah, you bring up something over there and ask for a review, which is actually a link, it can be like a QR code. And it’s not so hard to do. Right. So yeah, they’re like a landing page. And based on the response, if you have promoters, you can actually give them like a discount code for their friends to promote your products because that’s why it’s like their consistency, right? They’ve said that the chances for them to recommend are 10 out of 10 and you give them the means to do so people. Yeah, people think that they are in the game of ecommerce but they are in the game of changing customer behavior. I mean, just the whole way, right? So to improve the packaging sends SMS as well or Facebook ad campaigns that are run or remarketing right for the non responders, we are doing all this crazy stuff in this customer journey. Because at the end of the day, what I’m suggesting here is Hey change the way you are treating your customers instead of the boring remarketing gods with 10% Discount one week after the first purchase. Why don’t you ask the customers if they are happy? Why don’t you analyze when they are placing the next the next order and what why don’t you look at the products that are being bought after the first one is being I don’t know what create maybe You want to you want to push another product which can be like deodorant or whatever
Joshua Chin 15:07
filter. And I assume that reveal would consolidate data from different sources and feed data into different different places as well. So it will integrate integrate with the SMS tool that we will be using. And using the data that we have on Reveal, we will create a segment and feed that into SMS can trigger a certain campaign or an automation based on certain predefined criteria is right. Exactly. Is that is that on a real time basis? Does it get updated on its own? Is this dynamic? Or do you have to kind of refresh every day or every week?
Valentin Radu 15:50
This is this is changed in real time when it comes to NPS scores because you want to be responsive, let’s say you ever. So RFM stands for recency, frequency, monetary value. You have the best customers, we call them the soulmates. They’re the highest recency they place their last solid. Yeah, they have high frequency they bought five times on your shop. And there is monetary value. They they we have companies which have an ARV pay attention to their ARV is around $45. But the soulmates have a customer lifetime value of $2,000.
Joshua Chin 16:30
That allows investors versus what 445. Yeah,
Valentin Radu 16:34
exactly. Yeah, that’s the purpose, because these are the super consumers and every company has this super consumers. So right, you, you don’t want to mess around with them. You don’t want to lose them, because you haven’t paid attention to their feedback. So that’s why you send the NPS, we have disintegration for instance, with gorgeous, we send the NPS, we get a zero out of 10 chance for customers to recommend us. And we instantly push a ticket so that the customer support is going to treat that zero score coming from a soulmate. So this type of if this, then that scenario is what I’m a big fan of because at the end of the day, you don’t want to do manual work, we want to find what’s working and put it on autopilot.
Joshua Chin 17:21
But what I like about that example, is that you’re not taking the human out of the process. You’re putting humans in the right place at the right time. And that’s what it’s all about. It’s not about having everyone on your customer support team or your customer success team speak with every one of your customers. It’s about having them come in at the right time and resolving issues and speaking of your happiest customers and your unhappiest customers. I love that. Let’s
Valentin Radu 17:51
see if you can just hear I think it’s a good one. So one of our first customers the guinea happy right some some great guy, which was a really customer centric ecommerce entrepreneur. He, his company was was at a status where they realized the pirate life. So they wanted us to do RFM, segmentation and NPS and we we made NPS based on the RFM segments and didn’t realize that 10% of their customers were the soulmates, and they generated something like 60% of their margin. So those 10% were super, super consumers and they wanted
Joshua Chin 18:31
to cherish them. Valentin what’s the what’s the name of the company? Again?
Valentin Radu 18:35
It’s an office direct.
Joshua Chin 18:36
Yeah, Office Direct. Okay. Yeah,
Valentin Radu 18:39
yeah, they are. They are selling supplies for office supplies. Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. Free, the free jig.
Joshua Chin 18:48
Are they doing some? Yeah.
Valentin Radu 18:51
So they the, this is a company from from here from Romania. So they analyze to analyze the DMPS by the customer group. So eventually, they realize that they are this anomaly like few of their customers were very important. And they wanted to go even further to improve the NPS even further than that. So eventually, they’ve, they’ve got to have an NPS of 92, which is something that’s insane. Insane, exactly. Like the reference sample is something like 660. So that the question of how they’ve done
Joshua Chin 19:30
before, before I reveal that I just want to touch on how incredible that is. 92. Okay, so, guys, for those of you listening who don’t know how NPS calculated, you take your promoters, which are basically people who who voted a nine or a 10 Is that right? Nine or 10 out of 10, which is very rare. And you you deduct the people who have voted a six or below. So 654321 and zero you Take that that that chunk of people, and you deduct that from your, your, your promoters, and that’s going to give you the number. So it ranges from negative 100 to minus 100 to 100. So it’s actually a range of 200 instead of just one to 100. So having 92 means that the majority, the vast majority of people are promoted, and not just people who voted a seven or eight. How so tell us how do they do this?
Valentin Radu 20:30
Yeah. So what they’ve done is, instead of looking at NBS, as an, as an average, they’ve been stubborn, and they wanted to get married. And they looked at the whole customer journey. So instead of looking at the NPS, as an average, and raise their shoulders around what they should be doing next, they’ve sent this data regarding the NPS by their customer support rep. So they started to analyze what’s the NPS by CD, by RFM. Segment. And by their customer service, and by their delivery company, then because they had they ship the product based on we different Koreans. So eventually, they’ve got to fix the anomalies, right. So they looked at the lowest NPS scores, by location by courier by the picker and by the customer service person. So eventually, they just looked at what they should be fixing not only to measure it, because it’s one thing to have the data and it’s another thing to actually work on the data. So by doing this ongoing activity to improve and to optimize the, the lowest NPS scores, they’ve managed to get to this crazy NPS and more stable, so imagine that they have a stable NPS of 90 plus, that’s madness,
Joshua Chin 21:57
I can really appreciate that. Because that’s, that’s an obsessive Plus, with client success. And just client satisfaction, happiness, that’s, that’s rare, it’s very rare.
Valentin Radu 22:10
And the beauty of em coughs having such a high NPS is the network effect. Because that’s, that’s why NPS is so erode your promoters doing promoted because that’s what their name is all about it. So in the meantime, the company has been doubling in the last few years, the terms of the of the revenue, because you acquire customer, you signal early on that you have a high potential customer has, we call them the new passions, right? Low Risk and lower frequency back high recency and high, high monetary value, these are customers with the hypertension that they’ve just placed their order, you want to cherish them, and you want to give them on delighting experience with the product, because now the competition is not on the products anymore. It’s on the experience itself. If I want to buy I don’t know this watch, I can find it on 2000 stores. But why should I should I buy from this particular store? And the answer is that I feel delighted when I’m getting the products from this company. So we need to feel more like movie directors. It because that adds outstanding book about the experience economy from Joe Biden. We need to move things like movie directors to analyze the touchpoint that we have with our customers and delight them at every step, because that’s what a high competition does to the market. The consumers are happy while the companies they need to they need to level up
Joshua Chin 23:38
their game. I love that. So the book, you mentioned the experience economy. Yeah. Yes, this was written in 1998. Right.
Valentin Radu 23:51
And we’re living.
Joshua Chin 23:53
We’re living it right now. That’s what I’m saying. So a lot of people are talking about the how, how kind of how ecommerce has grown and shifted from what used to be just an online transaction, right? It used to be called E, E tailing e retail, right? Because it’s just retail But bottom line? No. But eventually that shifted, the conversation shifted from how to make a transaction online to how to create an experience online. And that’s what drives retention and the retention and customer value for the long term. So could you talk a little bit about what most brands are getting wrong nowadays, that you feel should be done better?
Valentin Radu 24:43
Yeah, I think if I if I want to sum up the the main problem is that they don’t listen to their customers. So it’s like even even if the brands are pretty new in the market, so imagine that you You’re a company, you’re you’re a new company, you want to get to the to the market. Imagine that you’re like going to a party, and you’re uninvited and you’re new at that party, right? So the consumers are having their fun partying over there, and your your brand, and you’re not different than the other brands, all you’re doing is you push your ads and commercials with your products. And you’re not, you’re not having the conversation with the customers, you’re just pushing ads at them. So I think that’s the main problem because companies need to do more customer research, that’s the missing piece. They don’t listen, they just broadcast messages, like discounts, campaigns, products, buy one, get one, but they don’t understand what’s the job to be done by the products. And I’m a big fan of this methodology to do customer research I’ve applied multiple times, it actually saved my own company to apply it and to look at the actual job that the products are doing. And just to be done is revealing the fact that people are not buying products, right, they are hiring products for a specific job, right? When you when you buy a dream machine, you’re actually buying a home, and you’re not buying the home, you’re buying the ability to get a picture with your wife, since from the moment when you’ve got married, and you’re not buying back, you’re buying the peace of mind that your wife is going to appreciate you and she wants to argue with you that friends are visiting because the quarantine is over. And we want to put that nice picture from when we got married. So even a dream machine has these emotional components. And you need to look at why people ie people are buying, buy are buying from your shop and not from other shops, why they are hiring your your your product, why they are hiring your shop.
Joshua Chin 26:56
I think that’s also a great rule for for creating the right ads and right creatives, and the way to communicate prospects as well. Because when you sell, you’re not always selling a feature and benefit, right? Like a product centric company would you’re selling to a pain, a hope or dream, an aspiration, or fear. And it all comes down to the job to be done. Right. So I love that. There’s anything what are some of your favorite brands that you are personally afraid of either fend off or customer off? Or just feel that they do you know what you preach really well?
Valentin Radu 27:41
Yeah, I’m a big fan of Nike, I think this this company is transformative. Imagine that their mission statement in the 60s were was something like crush evidence. That’s what that’s what was there. No crush added us. But in the meantime, they want to inspire and innovate every athlete in the world. And in parentheses, their vision statement is that if you own a body, you’re an athlete. So they become customer centric after they’ve been competition centric, right? It’s a mature company that got it. And moreover, they’ve activated their direct to consumer way because before it was cool, they’ve withdrawn their products from Amazon, because they felt that they do need to have a relationship with their with their consumers. They build their community, they push the app so that they wanna, they want their people to not only to own some shoes, but make progress in their lives. So many, that’s a company that I admire, and I
Joshua Chin 28:47
appreciate. I agree. 100% Have you read Shoe Dog? I’m sure Yeah, yeah. That’s a great book. Such an easy read as well. Shoe Dog by Phil Knight guys. Go check it out. I want to kind of Nike as well. I think they’re doing it really well. From a from a lifecycle marketing point of view, as well. Doing email and SMS and even their app, their global app is is incredibly, incredibly powerful. And just by doing that they own the entire customer journey from start to finish. It’s interesting to see how they’ve evolved from their founding story to where they’re at today. And now leading the charge on ecommerce being a legacy retailer to begin with. I love that any other brands that that you feel we should check out with
Valentin Radu 29:41
a challenging a challenging brand I love also the big ones like Patagonia because it has a mission and a vision that I truly admire. But be beside these are these new, new. Let’s say aspirants, you In the market, like direct to consumer brands that I admired, for instance, its peak Viper sunglasses. These guys are crazy completely go check their website, they have such a distinctive voice in what they are doing. And they are they are using social media and video. And they this direct type of communicating with the, with their current customers fantastically well. Yeah, so these are selling old school sunglasses, you’re gonna love the BT Viper silences another another type of direct to consumer another direct to consumer brands that I that I admired, for instance, it’s called Chubbies. The seller? Yeah, yeah, I jumped shorts. And we, I think, another another direct to consumer brand that I that I appreciate. It’s midday squares. They they are selling this type of CPG. Right. When when you they have a cool story. Another one is cosmic Chris meet where I have had him in our ecommerce, growth stories podcast, the great guy gets a lot of insights. And he built this I don’t know from in the last four years or so from zero to be distributed all over the world with this invention.
Joshua Chin 31:21
Cross that is so incredible for something so so so so niche is creating a very new sport, a whole new culture around. Something has never existed before, which is crazy to see outside. The cross net, midday squares, pit viper and Chubbies. Short. Yeah, great brands. Big fan. I, I’m actually a big fan of of Albertus as well. Are you familiar with all? Yeah, no,
Valentin Radu 31:57
no, this is right. So they
Joshua Chin 32:01
just they just did they just got an IPO. Incredible brand, I love the product. I own a couple of foods as well. But I think what the what if done well is in their their messaging and consistency across all channels. No matter where you’re at, like the an online ad, Instagram, retail store, email, you get a consistent sense of your messaging. And it’s seamless, right? You go and you go into into your offline store, you buy something logged on to your your accounts online, you’re gonna get an email and saying thank you, and the whole post purchase journey still happens online. So I think that’s the future of the the cross between an offline and online experience. And it has to be seamless across the two like reveal it would be so crucial to to making sure that all these channels are speaking to one another to create a fundamentally sound and unique experience for every single customer that walks through your door. validating what is just a last bit of advice, what’s what are some what’s your advice for ecommerce stores just picking up speed as we approach the end of the year moving into 2022? What should they do right away, if they haven’t yet looked into customer value optimization? Well,
Valentin Radu 33:41
the first thing would be to level up their understanding. So I think the ones that are are starting to learn about what they are doing about the game they are playing their their let’s say in the first position qualified to fall into oblivion. So to learn we have this academy about customer value optimization, it’s it’s made with some fantastic instructors out there. Another another piece of advice would be too if they don’t do that at least lesson to their customer so they simply do some surveys on the post purchase. So once the customers have got their products was their opinion about the whole the whole customer customer experience. Another advice would be to leverage their 00 party data so zero plus first party data it’s it’s an incredible combo right now that the cookies are are garnishing so one one way to do so you do the pre purchase survey to understand the job to be done by the product. Then based on those you tagged the custom the users you do remarketing ads based on the the job to be done If they buy, you tag, you continue to tag the customers, and you give them a different onboarding. So maybe let me give you an example. Based on that, we work with harsh brackets, there is a company, which is selling weighted blankets and the jobs to be done by them based on the research that we’ve done together was to, they thought that the weighted blanket was only for the coddling thing. But looking at their distribution of the jobs to be done, the way they found out that this is also present. This is also like therapeutic instruments. So it’s, it wasn’t a replacement for bands for sleeping, because you haven’t got knocked out by the base like, yeah, right. It’s a weighted blanket. So you have the ability to wake up. And I don’t know, see what the kids are doing if you have insomnia problems, but if you get the base, then you can’t do anything until it’s around 7am. So they found out that these are the jobs to be done. And based on that you can do repurchase surveys to validate the job and then you do landing pages based on each of the jobs and then they do remarketing ads and then you do onboarding emails based on how to to make progress in your life by using the product that you’ve already bought. And that’s that’s a way to leverage your your company. So we have a lot of blueprints like this in the CBO Academy where we are basically teaching people about how to handle ecommerce in 20 to 22 and B and beyond because the the issue that we have right now and also the entrepreneurs they lack the time to do things you know, they Johnny job, jokers, you know they are jack of all trades they do, as they do, let’s say fulfilling, they run the processing part, they need to hire people they want to they need to do a lot of things. But my my perception after running the show, because I am a former ecommerce entrepreneur, myself and I, I’ve seen how it is to be knocked out by the buyer friends, you know, because I lacked the time to go out with them. They were calling Hey, Mr. entrepreneur, what do you do over there, and I was actually struggling to survive, I was bidding on Google ads and whatever. So my suggestion is to carve out the time to learn. That’s it. I mean, if you learn, you grow, if you don’t learn that, you’re not going to learn and you can ask for advice. And there, I’m on LinkedIn. And I’m not the only one that I’m responding to every single direct message, which is not something like, Hey, I want to argue as a connection. No, tell me your story. Tell me what you’re struggling with. And I have a lot of moments when I’ve been chatting with random guys from from Australia, which we’re struggling with this data or data. So you can ask for advice. And he can learn do this and then you will track.
Joshua Chin 37:50
Also tell him. Thank you so much, guys, as usual, links are all in the description below. And if you’re listening in on on any of the podcast platforms, it is Omniconvert.com, you can go to Academy dot Omniconvert.com as well to check out TVO Academy, guys, there is a wealth of information out there. And in the online space. What matters most is a curated set of information, ideas, strategies and tactics that will work for the ecommerce landscape in 2020 and beyond. And I think that’s what CVO Academy promises. So go check that out, go check them out, guys. Absolutely. High Value stuff over there. So Valentin, thank you so much for being on the show. What is the best way to connect with you, you mentioned LinkedIn. Is there any other links, you’d like to plug? Oh,
Valentin Radu 38:49
you can find me on LinkedIn, I’m on LinkedIn person, I post there every time. I also have this, I’m so stubborn that I’m writing the newsletter every week for our broad database. So running 50 People company plus writing the newsletter every week is not is not an easy task. But I want to do this because I want to have this kind of feedback and still be connected with our audience. I mean, this marathon in this journey to to inspire and educate and then push our our products because I think this is the struggle that all the market has to actually learn how to play the game because tools there are plenty of tools out there and I’m honest about saying is maybe Omniconvert is not the right tool for everyone. But I do know that the getting more knowledge and helping people make progress in their lives is what is going to pay back on the long term for us as well.
Joshua Chin 39:52
I love that. I love that you see the long game, and I believe that many people do as well. Valentin, thank you so much for being on the show.
Valentin Radu 40:00
Thank you, Josh, for having me. And thanks, everyone for listening to us today.
Outro 40:08
Thanks for listening to the eCommerce Profits Podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get notified of future episodes.
