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The Power of Native Ads to Scale eCommerce Brands with James Van Elswyk, Founder of Symphony Agency

Joshua Chin 13:58

That’s incredible. Now, let’s talk about your team. And it seems like you’re, you’ve built an amazing team over the years. And obviously, it’s not something that kind of happens overnight. What has been the evolution in how you kind of built a culture around the high performance high, kind of just a strong quality team.

James Van Elswyk 14:26

I mean, step one, when you find great people, pay them well. And then after three or four years, or even less, give them some type of an ownership option, profit shares, things like this and reward them for that, like when someone makes your business their own, they should actually own a little bit of it. That’s like I think, I think that’s like really step one. I think step two is just finding the right people based on their personality. Like I use the same analogy all the time, but it’s like, you know, when You’re when you’re at your house and you’re tidying up the kitchen, there are people that take the rag and they wash around the blender, they wash around the toaster, there are other people that take the toaster in the blender, they unplug them, they put it to the side, and they clean the entire surface. You know, those are the people that I look for the people that do a good job, because that’s just how they do it. The people that let’s say they clean a car, they get out the hose, they get out the soap, they get out the rags, they clean the entire car, they dry the whole thing off, they put everything away, and they notice they missed a spot. Some people ignore it. And some people take all of it back out and like finish the job. When I find those finished the job people, I’m gonna find them a role somewhere, they have that core character, then I can I can find the right spot for them. I don’t know what that may be. Maybe it’s copywriting, maybe it’s sales, maybe it’s sorrow, maybe it’s data like I don’t know. But I guarantee with that type of character, there’s somewhere for them by organization. And when I find those people, I value them and cherish them and try to reward them for this. And then the second part of that is I’m constantly trying to replace the menial tasks that are wasting their time. So that a they feel satisfied and gratified that they’re getting a quality promotion, and that I’m helping them focus on what they’re great at. And then I’m building a team underneath them to support them. So I’m getting like more efficient output of them. Because I’m delegating roles that they don’t, that they’re above, I’m delegating that out, they have more time to do what they need to do, and then they feel rewarded for it. So I think like, these two, two, things have played a pretty big role in like where we’re at right now. Like, I’ve got people that have been with me for 10 years, you know, that other industries, you know, that started with your business and stayed with me? Again, they’re the right type of people, I could I could open up a bakery, and I could bring somebody people with me. And it would be amazing bakers, you know, because they’re that type of person.

Joshua Chin 17:08

The fit finish the job type of people. That’s, that’s incredible. I love that. What’s your Do you have a method in identifying these people? Or does it come just with experience and time?

James Van Elswyk 17:24

Look, it definitely comes with experience, I personally. And I have a lot of things that are broken. And I have a lot of super big mental weaknesses and character flaws, and all sorts of things. But if I’ve been blessed with anything, it’s been the ability to read people better effectively for these type of character things like I can talk to somebody, I can see their body language, I can see how they’re dressed, I can see how they talk to me, I can see how they look. And I can kind of in a weird way, like get into their head and see like what their existence looks like when they leave like I can tell you like, what what is the inside of your car look like? You know, like, what is your house look like? What are your relationships, like, I can kind of just see this, through experience, I would say from a system point of view. I think that’s something I read about Steve Jobs was until their business, or until his business had grown to over 100 people, every employee interviewed the incoming people. And I think this is like pretty key because I like to have multiple employees, even from different departments, interview people, because I’m very rarely interviewing them on their technical knowledge, I’m interviewing them on their personality type, the technical knowledge, I’ll learn that fast enough, or I’ll have something someone interviewed them for the technical side, by having other people interview, you’re getting a chance to get a lot of different viewpoints. And if you know your employees, you know, this one is optimistic, and this one is skeptical. So now I’m starting to look at a new person through different lens. And through their point of analysis that I don’t have, like I have a different type of analysis, right. So we all have different perceptions, we all have different ways to analyze. So I like to look through other people’s lens. And then the flip side that’s nice about it is is I tell my employees like look, I want you to interview because someday I want you to do hiring. And it also has like a double purpose because it allows them to understand that we promote from within and that my plans for them are greater than what they’re doing now my plan is for them to manage and hire and be part of this process and I value their opinion doing it this way. Like if you have like you know five employees outside of you interview someone and they all get really good vibes even the skeptical ones, it’s usually a pretty safe bet that they’re going to fit in with the corporate culture of doing a good job completing tasks and and the other stuff that we value.

Joshua Chin 19:47

That’s that’s just beautiful. That’s amazing. What do you what do you think about the when we spoke about this a little bit before we hit record? What do you think about The whole shift in remote working today how that can coincide with building a strong culture, just like what you described, and just having people that still feel like they belong. What does that look like in a remote first environment?

James Van Elswyk 20:22

I don’t think I’m very good at this, to be honest with you. I think I have good corporate culture because I hire people that have great value systems, that helps us. So there’s that shared thing. I think a lot of my employees respect each other, which I think is massive. I think it’s like something that is one of the biggest, it makes me more proud than anything else is when I’ve got badass people that respect the other people that work there that are badass. And I think that this is kind of self perpetuating the way that everything kind of works, I don’t think I’m the best at building corporate culture on the remote side, I think that I, as a leader, kind of make up for it by always keeping people in the loop in one on ones where I let them know what’s going on where the company’s going, and kind of just sharing with them the excitement of the vision. But usually, it’s in a one on one fashion, I will obviously do all hands and I will do company meetings. But I for me, it’s never been as effective as letting people know what’s going on. And what’s coming next on a personal level, again, not super scalable. But as long as I’m hitting the right people, let’s say eight people that that’s going to disseminate. You know, disseminate downward.

Joshua Chin 21:47

That’s awesome. And so what you’ve kind of just described this, what’s happening on the on the inside of well off your businesses, and then well, your agency. And you’ve also worked with agencies as a client as well. In your opinion, from your perspective, what makes a successful agency because I know lots of brands that have worked with lots of different agencies, before working with us, who have had just very specific struggles, in their experience with those other agencies that just made that whole relationship sour. What do you think a brand should look out for? And what makes for good agency? In your opinion?

James Van Elswyk 22:36

Okay, I think I would make I would approach this almost from like a different angle, how I see agencies and service businesses that have such a single point of contact in many ways, right? Like, you hire an agency, let’s say I’ve got an internal team of media buyers of 10. And I hire an agency and they have an they have a team of 10, right? At the end of the day, whoever I get from this agency, it’s going to be basically one person that’s responsible for my account. So it’s like, do you have a problem with the agency? Or do you potentially have the problem with that one person managing your account? Because on my internal team or an agency, there’s one person that’s usually the best? So it’s like, Did I just not get the best buyer? Did I not get the best account manager? Or is it the company? You know, and I think you can see that a lot when it comes to the reporting, the timeliness, the discipline, the systematic nature of things, if something is not systematic, and it’s not something that’s like a company wide procedure, you’re going to get hit with bad account managers or great account managers. And that’s going to be your experience of the company. When there’s multiple touchpoints. And you see, like, wow, accounting is on point. Sales is on point, you know, the client success on point, but we have a bad experience with the data person or the manager of the campaigns. You say, okay, it’s probably not the company, it’s probably this one single person. Because it’s really it’s like a single point of contact. And that’s all you know, then that’s your opinion of the company, because that one person made that opinion. Does that make sense?

Joshua Chin 24:19

Yeah, that that makes sense. And well, advice for agencies, would you then would you then recommend in that same vein, for agencies to create multiple touchpoints and systemize the experience of what a client would experience and working with them?

James Van Elswyk 24:39

Um, did I think that, I mean, step one is just running things organized and professional and onpoint. And giving clear expectations, clear management of expectations. I think that’s going to do a lot. One thing that I have not instituted yet, but I’m super into start ng is just serving the customers from a real time point of view, like just getting on the phone with them, and asking them how, what do I need to fix? Like, how can I make this shit better? Because like those insights are the most powerful. And it also shows clients like, Hey, I’m trying to do a good job I’m trying to improve. No one is perfect. We’re not arrogant. We don’t think we’re the best at everything all the time. We want to know how to better What would you like? Do you want more updates? Do you want more communication? Do you want less communication? There’s just a zillion things that from a client point of view, they want but there’s never like that communication and feedback, because everyone’s always just focused on making the campaigns work. Where I think digging in and getting that feedback can be like really powerful.

Joshua Chin 25:46

That’s, that’s awesome. Is that how you build your relationships at Symphony Agency?

James Van Elswyk 25:56

Look, I’m always personally looking for feedback and watching what’s going on with campaigns and clients. And I think we get a pass very often, because we have very good results, right? So our client management can be less because we’re getting good results. Obviously, what the results are not so good, it takes more client management, we have not systemized it. And I don’t think I’ve done a very good job yet of putting that feedback loop in place. You know, it’s something I want to work on. But it’s not something I’ve done well outside of myself. Just coming to clients from a humble nature, you know, we don’t have a lot of clients. So I still can one on one and say like, Hey, what do we need to fix? You know, I’m sorry about this, or, you know, but I want to figure out a better way to do it, or, you know, right now, like, how do I learn how I want to build my agency is from my ideas, or working with other agencies. And I think that 2021 it needs to be me getting the feedback from my clients on how to be a better agency.

Joshua Chin 26:55

That’s awesome. What are you most excited about in in the coming year?

James Van Elswyk 27:02

Um, I did I really want to get my copywriting school going. You know, I have a charity school I do for media buying. We teach underprivileged people how to Media Buy. And now we want to take it to copywriting and just creativity. I’m excited from a business point of view, because I think there’s like an endless need for copywriters, and I needed for my own business to support it. But I’m also excited to be able to service the community by helping people learn a new skill that’s like hyper valuable, doesn’t require a college education doesn’t require most of the things a normal job requires. Like it’s a true gig economy job. And it has one of the highest value, hourly rate, whatever you want to put it at. Out of all kind of like the good jobs that are out there, like a good copywriter can charge anything. And I think it’s like very appropriate for the gig economy. And I think it’s a great time to help people with employment because of what’s gone on with a pandemic, and I think it’s like, I can’t imagine the need ever being filled. You know, so it gives me a chance to like really help a lot of people because almost everybody that I know, is always looking for copywriters. They need advertorials, they need as they need copy, like it’s just it’s such a hard to find skill. And we’ve become decent at it for direct response, like native advertising requires a ton of copywriting on the pre sell side. So we’ve been forced to kind of work on it. So I’m like really excited to teach people that that trade. And also to set it up for my own business. I need more copy.

Joshua Chin 28:41

I you know what? I’m a big fan of that. And you call it the School of Modern Advertising. And it will I’ve seen your, one of your one of your initial his batches of students at I believe that was in 2019 was that?

James Van Elswyk 29:03

Yes, we met.

Joshua Chin 29:05

And that was purely for me buying and you actually landed quite a number of people in really cool jobs with just with a new network.

James Van Elswyk 29:14

Yeah, still there, man. I still follow up on them from that original class. We did a good job educating them we had, like amazing teachers come in from all around the world and teach them and they wanted to learn they had that characteristic. They had that wanting to do a good job wanting to succeed and we took them from, you know, very often, like pretty bad situations. You know, we have people in halfway houses people that have just got out of jail, like they needed an opportunity and then we gave them an opportunity and they just ran with it. You know, and you know, they were managing like legit budgets within two months, three months after, you know, graduating the school. A lot of them were at 20k a day plus.

Joshua Chin 29:58

That’s that’s it Incredible. I know it’s really incredible

James Van Elswyk 30:02

to they popped into a good system. It’s not like we were teaching people and they could just leave and just be amazing day one. But if you put them in the right system, they were ready, you know, they really shine.

Joshua Chin 30:14

That’s awesome for those for people who don’t know, what, how does the school work? Who’s funding the school? And how do the students get enrolled?

James Van Elswyk 30:24

Yeah, so I fund the school. It’s a full charitable effort on my end. And this year, now that I’m moving back to United States, I’ll have the ability to really start to kind of put more emphasis on it and formalize it a lot more. I’m very fortunate. And I say I fund it. I also have a partner that hires a lot of the students, he funds it. So I have to be careful there. No, but I’ve had a couple of different businesses approached me and said, Look, we want to give back, we want more media buyers, you know, let’s let’s do a school, you bring in the teachers and you get everybody trained up, and we’ll hire the people. So but this year, we’ll definitely more formalized it. The way that we get the students is we look in areas that people have hardships, we go to probation officers, go to halfway houses, we go to these types of locations to find, you know, diamonds in the rough people that need and will appreciate opportunities. And then they come to the school, obviously, it’s all paid for we train them. And then if they graduate, then we put them into jobs.

Joshua Chin 31:33

That’s, that’s just amazing. I mean, how do you? How do you decide who to enroll? Because you must have identified some kind of drive within the students to have enrolled them in the school? How do you make that selection? Do you? Are you involved in the selection process?

James Van Elswyk 31:54

I’m the ultimate in the selection process. I mean, I have to step one is I have a responsibility to my partner that’s going to employ most of them to make sure they’re going to be right. So I’ve got to hire people that I think will be good at Media Buy, like, at the end of the day, I need to hire people that I would end up hiring myself. So that’s that’s one thing. And then obviously, it’s like the hardship. And it’s like is the hardship not I mean, there’s just a million hardships. But is it the type of hardship that’s going to breed a sense of responsibility, and appreciation? Has this been someone who’s been through some stuff in life that will really appreciate it, we use, you know, HR, to dig through, give all my normal media, buying tests and personality tests and intelligence tasks and use that as a filter. And then when we get to the bottom of that, then it’s really again, it’s me with a character feel of who, who’s gonna sink or swim.

Joshua Chin 32:50

That’s really, really cool. And I think this is incredible, because it’s, it’s not just, you call it a charity, but I don’t think it’s a charity, it’s a really well run a business on its own, because it creates value for those involved. It fuels itself by providing media buys to your businesses and other people’s businesses. So I love the idea of this one,

James Van Elswyk 33:15

I’ll be honest with you, I believe this one will be the big, big business for me a big winner. Because I think it’s something that it is really a win win. Like you’re helping people, you’re helping businesses. It has the ability to be scaled massively, because there’s such a demand for all these types of positions, you could never fill the workforce. I think now with the pandemic, it makes a lot of jobs more accessible, or it makes people more accessible to jobs. Yeah. Because people aren’t going to be looking outside of the geographic limitations they once were. So yes, one of my big things and getting back to United States is to scale this out. It’s been very difficult. We had to cancel this year because of the pandemic. I do in the United States and California because this is like easy place for hiring. Because geographically, right? It’s easy to place people in LA, for example, for these type of roles.

Joshua Chin 34:12


James Van Elswyk 34:13

So when I get back to United States, the focus really is to step on the gas. And really push this because it’s like it’s easy. It’s such a win. Everybody wants to be part of it. Everybody wants to be held teachers are amazing. I enjoy it so much. students enjoy it. Like it’s just, it’s the favorite thing that I work on. And I do believe it can be a very profitable business venture as well. And better like college, like the easiest pitch ever, is like, like talking to parents like this is the best pitch because that’s really my market. One thing I learned in this last school as well, was just that younger people are just better at computers and they’re faster. So the next market I have on the media buying side, not as much on the copy side, but the media side is going to go to high school graduates that couldn’t afford to go to college or has Some type of messed up situation that stopped them. Maybe they had like a sick family member, or they had some problem that didn’t allow them to go to school. And it’s easy to pitch the parents and just say like, Look, you’re going to go and spend money on college, you’re not going to make shit when you get out of college, where media buying you the potential to make a lot of money, fast. And I think it’s like, and the reason that I really enjoyed this, and especially with like, the people that were just out of jail, for example, is like, it takes out because because media vine can be quantified with numbers, you’re either green or red, there’s no way black, yellow, yeah, no good person, bad person, like, you’re either profitable or not profitable. It doesn’t matter if you’re a man or a woman or whatever. It’s a great equalizer, you know. So it gives people a chance to really equalize in society and make just as much if you went to college, you didn’t go to college, good background, bad background, you still get a chance to make a bunch of money if you can make other people a bunch of money.

Joshua Chin 35:59

That’s, that’s amazing. What is the what’s the inspiration? Or what’s your why in doing this? Because it it’s not? It can it definitely can be it probably will be a very profitable business venture. But it probably didn’t start out as a business idea. And like, like you mentioned, it was a, it was truly just out of goodwill. What Where did that come from?

James Van Elswyk 36:26

Yeah, so it’s something that like, not a lot of people know about, but I’m not I don’t hide it or anything. But I myself went to prison for a while. When I was 24 years old, I went away for about six years. And for marijuana, which is crazy, because it’s legal now, but like, whatever. Wow, I was just a little early, as my mom likes to say, yeah, so when I got out, um, I didn’t, I’ve never turned on a computer. I didn’t have proper education. And I was a convicted felon. And it was just impossible to get a job. And it was even hard to like lease or rent places because they didn’t want felons in the location. But I knew that I was hungrier than anyone else. I was harder working than anyone. And I had been through like a very difficult experience. So I had grit, right. So I had grit, I was hard working. I was street smart. But I just didn’t have that opportunity. And as soon as I figured out how to make money, my first job, when I got out, was lead generation. It was just I got a job at a company, my probation officer said, Look, you have to get a job. And I got a job at a digital marketing company that did lead generation. And I just said, like, Look, I don’t even have time, like I want to be rich. And I don’t have time to like, pick a job. Like I’m just gonna become the best that can be at lead generation. And I just started, you know, and I had that self start mentality, right? And I looked at and said, What about people that don’t have a self start mentality? What about people that aren’t gonna become an entrepreneur? What are they going to do for jobs? You know, like, I got grit, I’m hard working. I’m a good person. Yeah, I made a mistake, but I’m ready to go do it. And it was always kind of in my head that I wanted to do something to help people when they came out of this situation, right. Like, I just felt that there was like a need for this. Because I feel like people that have been through tough things just end up being better performers in general, like, you know, like, I don’t know what the saying is, but it’s what is it, like calm seas, never makes a great sailor. People that have been through rough shit in their life, have more perseverance, they try harder, there’s a lot of ways smarter. So I just thought there was like a real asset that these people are an asset as opposed to a liability. But there was no place for them. And then when I saw the power of media buying and the fact that it’s green, or red, nobody cares about your past. You don’t need to go through like a criminal background check or whatever, you’re either making somebody money or not. When I put those two things together, I just said, like, Look, I need to do this, you know, I need to I need to use what I know with media buying and fill these positions, and help people that come from bad situations. And then we did it.

Joshua Chin 39:07

I love that. That’s incredible. And I do believe that hardship brings out really the best in people. And I just wish that more people see that. And you’re, you’re doing some amazing things. So just about to wrap up here, but I have a couple of just quickfire questions for you. And then we’ll end the conversation. What are your current favorite books? I know that you learn a lot.

James Van Elswyk 39:37

Oh my god, how many books? Um So um, there’s a book that I’ve just keep going back to Traction. Sounds like the most amazing adventure in the world. But I really like it and I’m looking at the EOS System again. I think that that’s been something that Yeah, Did I just keep going back to? I keep going back to that one recently and kind of digging in on that again. Let’s see, what else are we into this last year? Willpower. That was another fantastic one in the last few months. Willpower is a great one about what makes us persevere and want to get shit done. And why do we not get done? That was very interesting. There’s another book that talks about happiness. I can’t remember the title, but it basically is like the scientific explanation of why we do things like serotonin, dopamine, and endorphins and how they scientifically motivate us to get things done and how you can kind of play with this sorry for the blanks, these quickfire questions serving

Joshua Chin 40:54

this. This good No, no, this good Willpower. So Traction,Willpower and what?

James Van Elswyk 41:00

I’ll post it, I’ll send it over to you. I can’t think about it something with the word happiness in it. And I cannot put my foot in

Joshua Chin 41:07

Was it Happiness by Choice by any chance?

James Van Elswyk 41:10

I don’t think so. No.

Joshua Chin 41:12

Willpower? Is that the one by Roy Baumeister? Is that what I’m seeing right now? Yeah, sure. Awesome. podcasts. Do you listen to podcasts?

James Van Elswyk 41:25

Obviously, I do the Joe Rogan thing. Randomly anything with Naval Ravikant, I listened to quite a bit.

Joshua Chin 41:33

Oh, man, I just finished this book. Well, not not his book, someone compiled all his tweets into a book.

James Van Elswyk 41:39

He’s, I think he’s he’s my favorite personality to follow.

Joshua Chin 41:46

Awesome. Naval. Gotcha. Your favorite conferences, and I know you have a couple coming up.

James Van Elswyk 41:53

Obviously, my own event business man Geek Outs, you know, we do events. We do great events, we cap it at like, I don’t know, 30 to 40 people. Everybody’s interviewed everybody’s very high level. And it’s like a combination of a social event. And what we call like laptop learning. It’s not traditional, or teachers are hitting it with like PowerPoint. It’s more like open up campaigns. show what’s working. Why did we do it? You know, why didn’t we do it? What mistakes do we make? Usually the attendees could also teach like, everybody’s actually that high level. This year, we’re going to do seven of them. We’re really excited. We partnered with dress that i o which is one of the amazing Yeah, one of the biggest, maybe the biggest e commerce store ecommerce business acquires. It’s gonna be called the acquisition tour. And we’re hitting Puerto Rico, Miami, Austin, Los Angeles, Brooklyn, Barcelona and Amsterdam this year. So I’m super super excited for that. We’ll be starting to announce it this coming week.

Joshua Chin 43:01

There’s that is awesome Thras.io to write. Thrasi.o you they are, they are the fastest growing the fastest company to ever reach a billion dollars profitably, I think in the United States. So that’s super cool. They’re amazing, man.

James Van Elswyk 43:20

They’re so amazing. Like, I I’m blessed to speak with one of the founders. And I’m always like, wow, these people are so smart. They hire great people. They do such good business. And like, what was amazing is and think about this, this guy’s a founder, okay, and we were talking about, they were proud of their speed of resolution of bands like account bands. They had it to the hour did where he said like when we were starting, it was this many hours that our account would be down. And now we’ve got it to where our accounts are only down like this. Like they’re literally measuring the time of account resolution. Ah, my heart did that. I was like, Wow, that’s so impressive.

Joshua Chin 44:05

That is incredible. Are there any brands, any ecommerce brands that you look up to that you admire? And why

James Van Elswyk 44:15

Dude I got a friend who owns Wow Shampoo, and I see the way that he scaled? I’m always very impressed by him and the partnerships and the hustle and getting into retail. Obviously, that one’s kind of personal. Also, you mentioned one man, The Hoodies a Davey, you know this is a founder that’s like a funky kid like he’s young 20 something. I’m not gonna say the numbers he’s doing because it’s probably private, but they’re like massive, like the most insane amount of money per day. And I’m always just impressed by this guy and his brand like people just love it like the testimonials and the reviews of it are just amazing. And, you know, I was just congratulating him on his success. It’s such a young age. He’s like, Yeah, but actually, I started when I was like, 14. And he sent me like a list of all of his failed businesses, you know, and I was like, Dude, this is this is so motivating and shit, because it wasn’t like, this was just his first business. And it was he’d had like, a ton of fails. But I really, I really like. I really like The Hoodies, because I like the founder.

Joshua Chin 45:25

And he’s a really, really humble guy. I mean, he’s one of the most down to earth. Young, really young founders that I know. I mean, I don’t lots of econ dropshipping owners and brand owners who are just they they tasted success too early, too young too quickly. And that’s, that’s where the ego and arrogance kick in. But no, he’s super humble.

James Van Elswyk 45:53

And he’s like crushing like, the biggest numbers. And he’s just so chill. Like, I just, I know, changed from when the brand was brand new to now. He’s just the same chill dude. Like, I love that

Joshua Chin 46:09

guy, man. And district. Yeah. And he just doesn’t want to be in the spotlight. He just loves doing his thing in the background.

James Van Elswyk 46:15

Yeah, I even asked him for natives. I asked, Can we run natives for them? And I asked him, I could do a founder story because it’s such a great story, right? Like 25 year old Ozzie whiz kid creates viral brand. Like, it’s just even a good headline, you know, he’s like, Yeah, I don’t want to do that. I was like, all right, dude.

Joshua Chin 46:37

Oh, man, that’s awesome. All right. Is there anything that you leave for our listeners, just quick, one sentence or an advice that you would give? If you had a bill, but let me let me change this question. If you had a billboard, in the busiest street of LA, or what would you have on that billboard?

James Van Elswyk 47:01

I got so many rather. But I would say, especially if it’s LA envy is the theft of joy. You know, enjoy what you have. If you’re always looking at Instagram, and what other people are doing and this type of stuff, you’ll never be happy with what you have. And that’s really what it’s all about. We have like amazing lives because we’re alive. You know, and we should appreciate that moment and what we’re doing and our successes and our accomplishments and not be coveting other people’s you know, otherwise, you’ll never be happy.

Joshua Chin 47:29

I love that. It’s beautiful. And if anyone is interested in contacting you about native ads, helping their brand skills, native apps, what should they do?

James Van Elswyk 47:41

I think email me directly. You can email me at James@PurpleLeads.com.

Joshua Chin 47:46


James Van Elswyk 47:48

Yeah, James@purpleleads.com put Josh Chin in the subject line. So I answer it. Maybe also put the word natives in there. I’m very selective with my email pruning. So yeah, James@purpleleads.com and we’re happy to check out your brand and see if we can scale it for you.

Joshua Chin 48:06

Perfect. James, thank you so much for your time. It’s been an amazing conversation. And thank you for being on.

James Van Elswyk 48:14

Always a pleasure, brother, man. Have a good day.

Conclusion 48:20

Thanks for listening to the eCommerce Profits Podcast. We’ll see you again next time. And be sure to click subscribe to get notified of future episodes.

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