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Why Online Business Owners Should Care About Their Taxes with Alan Chen, Co-founder of FreeCashFlow.io

Alan Chen 5:37

Yeah, that’s exactly. That’s actually a good point, Josh. So what what we kind of try to educate the client base that we have on is that a lot of time tax planning is really neither nonexistence or less left to the last minute, right? So most people outside of accounting world, they have this misconception, or this myth that, you know, tax season is April 15? Well, this year because of the pandemic May 17. Right? So there’s like only this time, I just filed my taxes, get it in time. And then I’m done. Worry about next year. Right. And I would say that’s actually the last step. If you if you have if you hire a good CPA, they’re planning the whole year before that, right they’re little watching out for you every month on what deductions and credits you could possibly be taking, based on your how your business is operating. Right? Because really, if you think about it, when you’re in April, you’re already too late, the whole tax year, which is last year, so for us would be the 2020 tax year, right? So January to December 2020 is over. There’s there’s some stuff you can still do now that you pass that period, but a lot of it is you should have already planned for it and done the year before, right? So, for example, a lot of ecom owners, they buy what we call cash basis, though, they only care about cash in cash out. So they earn revenue, cash comes in account that they spend things on Shopify ads or ad spend, that’s cash going out very easy, right and thinking of that. But what what you can do is because your cash basis, there’s a lot of way at your end, you can play around with cash, when I say that I don’t, there’s not any legal thing, it’s really just a way where you can, you know, let’s say you’re looking for more deduction that year, you can go ahead and buy up next year’s inventory, that’d be a great way to get a greater deduction that year, you can also prepay for software licenses that you’re going to use anyway. Right? That’s two benefits. One, you know, doing it with annual licenses, you save a little bit money, right there gives you a little discount, and two, you can count that whole year of license costs as part of your tax deduction the year before. Now, if now, those are just some come samples, but those things are things you have to do to the year before during the tax year. If you wait till April, till you file your taxes. There’s nothing in an account that they’re not magicians, they there’s nothing they can do for you at that point. Right. So that’s why we always like work with them. We don’t we’re not like a just a tax preparer that just knows your tax, you know, like an H&R Block or TurboTax and disappear, right, we’re here for you to tie away. And I think the benefit of that is we basically guide you let you know what you can take the whole year to the end of the year, you see that you accumulated all these deductions, all these things that you have done, and it actually adds up to a pretty significant amount of tax profit back in your pocket.

Joshua Chin 8:09

What what are some of the pitfalls that online business owners, especially as you as you’re scaling from hitting your first one mil per year to the next 10 mil? What are some typical milestone and pitfalls that you see happening?

Alan Chen 8:28

Oh, yeah, that’s a that’s a great, that’s a great one, Josh. So one thing that we have seen from people that have been scaling really, really fast ecom owners is they don’t really take sales tax seriously. Right? Because I think with them, they only focus on the federal and state level taxes they have to watch for the sales tax nowadays is really gonna bite you in the butt. The reason is, with the whole that court case, which is the South Dakota versus Wayfair, it kind of changes the game of how they determine Nexus, right? Nexus is basically an accounting term when IRS term that says where and what state are you affiliated with have a connection with that you will have to pay sales tax for. So a couple examples, Nexus and the old definition, which is physical Nexus, if you are physically in that state, you have a warehouse in a certain state say Florida, you have employees in another state, say New York, and then maybe you have a wholesaler agreement in Texas, right? Just a few examples. That’s physical Nexus. But nowadays, with a new rule change will because our court case is what we call economic Nexus, economic Nexus, it’s what’s really impacting online business owners. What economic Nexus is, is that it doesn’t matter if you’re not physically connected to an area. It’s all about how much sale right concentration of sales you have in a certain state. So if you have sold, I don’t know 100,000 net massagers to Wisconsin, right or to South Dakota or to Michigan, right. That’s what’s gonna trigger that threshold where that state’s gonna come after you and say Hey, you should be remitting sales tax to us. Right. And another thing is that some ecommerce may not know is they think that, you know, sales tax is just one rate per state, right. So if you’re selling to California, you just paid a 9.5%, I made up that number, it changes all the time, per se, but I picked out one of the highest states, so 9.5. But what they don’t know is every county, every city, every like local jurisdiction, also comes up with their own sales tax rate. And what you have to do is you add, you add all these little rates, with your your state sales tax rate to get your combined rate for that state. You see, so it’s a little bit more complicated than people think it is. And that’s what we want, why when, you know, we pick a client, we do that kind of calculation for them, we look at do, you know, whole Shopify customer listing, we break it out for them, and really try to do segmentation of, you know, not even what state they’re in, but what county that that item got shipped to what city got shipped to what zip code got shipped to, and I see other different ways affecting them because of that. So with businesses that have hit, I would say, you know, seven figure or eight figure, they really need to get ahead of that because they’re definitely you’re gonna trigger a lot of states thresholds in those cases.

Joshua Chin 11:10

What’s what’s the worst case scenario, let’s say if I, if I messed up my sales tax calculations, and I underpaid, or I don’t pay a sales tax in a certain jurisdiction, what’s going to happen to a business?

Alan Chen 11:24

Okay. Yeah, that’s a great question too Joshua. So there’s, there’s two, there’s two things, if you at least attempted to write file your state’s tax return, they’re happy with that. They’re like, Okay, this guy is trying to be an honest merchant, and he’s making an effort to pay he maybe he doesn’t didn’t hire accountants didn’t hire a CPA. So submit a wrong amount, right? There, they’re less likely to penalize you doing that, versus the second scenario that you’re talking about, which is you don’t submit at all right, you don’t take any action doing that, that they really found upon, you know, and it really goes state by state, but some state day, they’re like interest and penalties can be as high as 22% of your revenue in penalties that you have to pay in addition to what you all already in sales tax.

Joshua Chin 12:07

Did you say revenues? Not profits.

Alan Chen 12:11

Yeah. Yeah. So. So you Yeah, you really got it, you really some states really I pay attention to and not now, it’s better if you’re just fine with them. So we do have clients that come to us and are behind, right. But what you can do is you call up that state. And this is a great tip for people out there who are behind on their state sales tax, he called that state and say, Hey, I’m an online ecommerce seller. I think I have triggered a directional in your state. What can I do there? And they’re very nice about it. They’re like, Oh, look at that. This is an honest, honest guy, make time make an honest living selling online stuff. They didn’t know the rules of our state, because it is confusing. And they’re like, yeah, we’ll work with you, you know, we’ll work you don’t worry, we will waive the penalties if you are honest with your information and how much sale you have made. So they really rather you you be upfront and volunteer that you you are doing your selling, you do have a concentration of customer in the state rather than you just hiding, right. And just pretending this doesn’t exist. No, I didn’t do this. I just saw your state I’m not online business.

Joshua Chin 13:08

You said, Alan, you said thresholds. So is there a certain threshold below which sales tax do not apply? Or how’s that work?

Alan Chen 13:16

Yes, yes. So usually the mark is $100,000. Each state can set their own. But what we have seen is it is at least &100,000 is that that’s what that court case did. It’s $100,000 or 200 transactions.

Joshua Chin 13:31

It’s 100k or two hundred transactions.

Alan Chen 13:32

Yeah. Yeah, it’s yeah. But every state is different. For example, California, that number can be as high as 250. Right? And then and then some state is somewhere in between that, right? And then they all have, they all have little rules, but that you really got to know. So some states are more strict where as soon as you trigger, the next month, they make you pay, right? Certain states are nicer would say, okay, you trigger it, but we will let you wait till the first day of the next year, before you have to submit your payment where before you trigger, right, so those are things that are loose strategies that we also utilize well, ecom owners, and that there are ways, right where, say you’re very near threshold for state, right, let’s give, let’s say I don’t know, or Washington State, and you had $95,000 for that state, and you’re like, and we tell you, it’s like, so is it. Now you have 15 days left in December? Is it worth to keep advertising and selling to that state? And how much revenue are you going to earn in that 15 days versus you taking that ad dollars and just exclude Washington and sell to other states? Right? Where if you’re $95,000, you don’t trigger a sales tax state. So you may save like eight, 9000 in that state, right, just just off the bat, just knowing this information ahead of time and knowing Oh, if I just stopped selling the state, I don’t have to pay that year. I can wait till next year until I’m way over that $100,000 mark. Does that make sense, Josh?

Joshua Chin 14:47

Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. It’s like so it’s it’s kind of optimizing how much you’re paying in any given year. And it’s not avoiding tax but optimizing the amount that you pay such that you’re not messing up your cash flow.

Alan Chen 15:05

Yeah, it’s it’s playing into a rules, I would say that’s the best definitely. Rules, playing the rules, knowing the rules. And I’m saying you say $100,000? Well, I only have $95,000 in sales. Now what? Okay, you can go, you know, it’s like, if you don’t go over that number, then what can they do to you? Right?

Joshua Chin 15:22

Makes sense.

Alan Chen 15:22

That’s what we did. We did not, we did not, I would say, break any laws. Right? Yeah, we just we just play when your rules, we stay under the directional. Maybe it’s even like, you know, $100 less than your directional? Well, if your rule is $100,000, above, we have to report and submit. We didn’t hit it.

Joshua Chin 15:39

Makes sense. And can you give us an example of, you know, of a typical, a typical online business owner that you work with? And what’s that process? Like? And what would savings look like? Is it just like saving one grand a year? Or?

Alan Chen 16:01

Oh, no, it’s, it’s usually we only work with I’ll say, six figure income owners, and really specifically, owners have made over I would say, around like 300k or more annually. The reason for this is, you know, we don’t want to work with any clients that won’t have a good experience with us. Right. And from all the data we have collected over all the clients that we have, we kind of are able to do an apples to apples comparison between brands and between industries and online business and say, This guy is able to get this much savings. Why can’t this owner also what is he not doing? Right? So it really gives it that data aggregation to compare also, just one advantages, I would say going with a someone who’s niche in your area of business. And to answer your question, I think it’s it really varies between clients and clients. And the reason I say that, because you know, every client has different amount of ad spend, different account of operating expense, some clients have employees, right, some clients choose to go to VA only route, right? Some clients do a lot of affiliate marketing, they have rev share going in there. So it really changes the calculation. But what we can provide is what we do is we you know, we do a monthly report recommendation report, where we tell clients, hey, this is where we think your business is going. We see your cash flow, we see your trending your gross margin percentages, and we this is what we think you should be doing to optimize your tax situation for the year. And then we do that with them every month to the end of the year, they actually have a much better situation than if they weren’t doing it. Right. So I don’t know how to give you a specific number, but it’s a lot more than $1000. But I’ll say, you know, we have gotten clients, you know, anywhere between 50 to 100k in tax savings.

Joshua Chin 17:40

That’s incredible. That’s incredible. And that that’s 50 to 100k. In basically profits, that’s that’s saved, that’s not revenue anymore.

Alan Chen 17:49

No, that’s totally true. And that’s like that could be, you know, 10 to 15% more a profit that they get to put in their pocket this year. If they didn’t do a you know, the tax planning correctly.

Joshua Chin 18:00

Exactly. And now, let’s talk about tax havens. We spoke a little bit about that before recording, but tax havens. I’m based in Singapore, so I pay 17%.

Alan Chen 18:13

That’s amazing.

Joshua Chin 18:15

Tax flat. Right.

Alan Chen 18:16

That’s amazing.

Joshua Chin 18:17

Before deductions. So what what’s your advice for, for US-based businesses? LLCs? What should they consider? And what are the options available now? Because I think a lot of people have a question like that.

Alan Chen 18:34

Yeah, they really do. We have we have a course out right now just one module that we teach. So one of the things we emphasize to owners that have the I would say the flexibility of being anywhere right, since you own online business, you don’t have a physical presence most of the time, anywhere, you should be flexible and where you choose to write you should actually choose the most advantageous state or even country to operate your business out of that gives you the most tax advantages. So we encourage anyone like I have a family I have a baby so it’s hard for me to move out of California I wish I can, right, I wish I would get a lot of savings in a different state. But for someone who’s you know, single and don’t have that family obligation tying them down to running a successful ecommerce business, we highly encourage them to you know, do a small move just go to a state with first no state income tax or no sales tax right those are two great moves. A couple of states in mind that fit those categories like say Nevada, Texas have no state income tax or again no no sales tax. So it is a lot like there’s a lot of states like that, that can help them they could just move to that state and they run your business from there that’s that’s the primary state they have to pay taxes out. Right? But then even further than that, if you’re running a wildly successful business, you can also just skip the whole US taxes completely right where you can go to a Singapore or Hong Kong or a Malta or Malaysia right. A lot of these like countries who are very I would say pro business would love for business owners to build a dam they have very easy ways to incorporate and very friendly tax rates. And by great talent pools there and very cheap labor also in some of these countries, and they can really run your business from these countries, and they save way more taxes than they would have in the US tax and like, I was so jealous when you mentioned, Josh, that your tax rate like 17%, because in the US, it goes up as high as like 37, 39%. Like, that’s crazy. Like that’s like, that’s like, what 22% just difference right? Off the bat. Right? Like, just think about how much your revenue is times 22% if you’re in the US. You wouldn’t like that one bit.

Joshua Chin 19:39

That’s just crazy. That’s, that’s insane.

Alan Chen 20:39

Yeah. So yeah. So if they don’t wanna move internationally, we do recommend that at least think about moving to a state that has better tax rates. That’s that’s move number one, move number two would be to choose a better tax haven country.

Joshua Chin 20:51

Tell me a little bit about Delaware. I know that Delaware is like a mini tax haven in the US. How would that work as an LLC that really hasn’t cooperated in another state? How would someone take advantage?

Alan Chen 21:08

That’s yeah, I’m so glad you brought that up, Joshua. So I think there’s a common misconception that anyone can incorporate in Delaware. Nope, that is true. That is completely true. But the thing is, is most states they make you do what, what is called like reciprocal incorporation. So for example, I’m in California, right? I have also, when I started my agency, I thought, hey, why am I paying these ridiculous California LLC rates, when I can just incorporate Delaware? Who is known to be sort of a tax haven and do that, but actually from talking to a lawyer, they’re like, No, you can’t get away with that. Even if you incorporate in Delaware, California it’s gonna be like, well, you live in California, you you’re going to have to also, you know, incorporate in California only. So it may just always move to might as well only incorporate in California not have to deal with extra paperwork of having like, double LLCs outstanding. Now, with that said, for international sellers, you want to have an LLC in the US, huge advantage, right? Since you guys don’t decide in any state in the US, you have your pick of the litter, you can literally pick any state you want to incorporate in, right, so you can choose a Delaware. I think Wyoming, Wisconsin, and Nevada are all great states that you can incorporate in, and you can take advantage of those really low graduation rate low LSC rate, though very little I would say oversight over over your over your, your your business versus a California where, get this I can I can make no revenue, Josh, and they were still making me a pay under $100 in franchise tax was what they call it. So I can I can just I can make no money this year. Right? California will still take $100 to me. Well, crazy, right? So it’s it’s actually a huge disadvantage if you are drop shipping and just want to start business in California, because often you’re like, oh, man, it was $800. If I you know, don’t my net net if my net massage doesn’t work out?

Joshua Chin 22:59

That’s tough. Yeah, it’s really tough.

Alan Chen 23:01

Yeah, yeah. Those are great for international sellers. We’re trying to, we’re trying to incorporate in the US.

Joshua Chin 23:07

Gotcha, um, that besides well, you know, aside from tax planning, and bookkeeping and all the stuff, what are some serious problems or issues that you’ve seen high growth ecommerce brands face that they’re not paying attention to?

Alan Chen 23:29

Yeah, so I’ll mention two things that really come to mind for me, Josh, one thing is, a lot of time when businesses are in high growth mode, they forget the little thing, right? What we have seen is, you know, when we analyze a company’s income statement, right, where we look at their gross margin, and we see is trending down, and we’re like, why, like, you should be you should be you’re making more and more revenue each month. Why is your gross profit margin doing worse, like, and what that translates to is basically less money for you, right? Less money you can put your pocket. But when we would dig into the numbers, and we discover is that their suppliers were slowly creeping up the rate for their inventory, right. And they were so busy with their operation, they just like whatever 10 cents here 20 cent increase there, they just let it happen. When when you are operating at those kind of volume of units that you’re selling each month, it catches up fast, it adds up that 20 cent increase per item adds up fast when it’s only like, you know, 10,000, 20,000 units of it, right. So what we tell them is, you’re running a sort of big business, but don’t forget to negotiate, right, like you have, you have all this international, I would say supplier network available to you. Don’t forget that you don’t have to stick with that same supplier don’t forget to go back to and say, Hey, I’m doing such high volume with you. Why are you charging me this? And if they don’t, if they don’t like it, like they say, Oh no, it is the best way we got, trust me the walkaway method works nine out of 10 times, you know, they’ll find magically find discounts for you all of a sudden, like, Oh, wait, you’re leaving me? You’re leaving this like you have a $3 million business. You’re not working with me anymore. Yeah, they will find ways to lower their rate charts. And then what we find is clients that do this, they started to drastically improving their profit margin habitat. But like, there’s just a little thing, right? It’s kind of like, for me personally is like, we have car insurance in the US, you know, we kind of that’s daunting, which is auto pay, right? Car Insurance. But then we, we don’t realize that Oh, man, it keeps going out every day if you just keep increasing my rate, but if you call them up and threaten to leave them, they’re like, Oh, no, I found some discount, I found a family discount for you, or you’re just your CPA got another discount for you. And then magically, that rate goes down. And that that adds up in the household budget. So if that works on the household side, it definitely works on the business side, though. And that was a much bigger numbers you’re dealing with. And the second thing I would say is, a lot of time we find ecom owners afraid to let go. They’re afraid to hire out because they’re distrustful, maybe they got burned by you know, VA who didn’t do customer service, well didn’t do order fulfillment well, and they’re like, I’m gonna do I’m gonna do everything myself, you know. And we see people because we talk to them on Slack. But we have a Slack channel for each of our clients. We see the green lights on around like 3am before I’m like dude, what do you what are you still doing up? Like, are you still working? They’re like, yeah, customer inquiries, like, you’re a CEO of a company that does seven figures. Why will you be answering your own, like, like, you should be training someone to do this for you at this point, right. But it’s so distrustful that they someone’s gonna do wrong, they think customers are gonna get mad that they’ll don’t like go and we don’t push too hard, I bet because that’s their business. But we do say, Hey, you know, we have seen examples, customers started clients that it was scale so much better. Because they let go, they hire out great talented team, each one expert in their area, right, maybe one that’s, you know, for example, they hire your your agency sounds really good email marketing, someone really good at site design, if someone’s really good at supply relationships. And when they let go, they can focus on big picture stuff, buy the things to actually move the needle that drives your business even further and even better. And we seen that when businesses are able to do that just give, give these things to talented people who only focus on one niche to work on it. And the only work is on what really drives the business forward. They are quickly able to grow their business beyond a point that is imaginable. While those those people who still wants to do everything themselves, I don’t know, you know, you know, Josh, like, I think like, the reason you’re an entrepreneur is you want to leave behind a nine to five, right? Like, you don’t want to have a boss and have to listen to someone anymore. But if you’re working in this time, yeah, yeah, we know a time. But if you’re working 16 hours a day, where’s the freedom of time?

Joshua Chin 27:30

It’s just a nightmare.

Alan Chen 27:31

Like, it’s, it’s it disappeared, right? Like were like doing that you’re kind of, you know, you’re you’re actually what you were in one prison cell. And now you just move over to the next one. And that’s in my opinion, you know, that’s you didn’t get out, you did find a financial independence you were looking for. And when you became an entrepreneur, that has to be one of your, I would say your goals, right? When you become entrepreneur, there has to be say, like, when you think about like, why am I doing this? Why am I working so hard? Right? Like, maybe maybe your reasons to provide for yourself, maybe it doesn’t provide for your family, right will provide for your your parents who are aging, and there has to be a way of saying like, okay, am I proud of myself, at the end of the day, I want this very successful, as large of a business game I can grow it to, and then one day, be able to maybe exit the business, have a big payday and then move to Thailand, right? And enjoy. Right, right. But not if you’re always your head is always like in the details. Still, you’re not acting like a CEO. So that’s a big problem we see from clients, and we will try to encourage them to not do that to try to trial other people that are good people in the world, what’s going to help you grow your business, who won’t make false promises to you and will actually deliver those results. You know?

Joshua Chin 28:06

I agree. And now for people listening. It’s it’s kind of hard to piece together the different steps that that that we need to take, especially if we’re really starting from a point where everything’s a mess, and I don’t want to begin with. But you told me that you created a course called Tax Free eCom. And it’s published. So yes. Tell me a little bit more about that. And you mentioned that you got a little bit of a special offer for our listeners.

Alan Chen 29:11

Oh, yeah, definitely. Definitely. So. So Tax Free eCom which is called tax week on hyperdrive your after tax profit. The reason we spent three months and pulling all our industry knowledge into this course me and my partner Stanford, is we really realize there’s a gap that we’re not covering, right, because we’re we’re serving six bigger guys. There’s a lot of people dming us who, you know, just started or maybe just made like 5k a month, who are also very worried about tax and accounting they can’t sleep at night thinking like, I made a bit of money. But what do I do with it? How do I report it? What now what, what would I go to is I suddenly have to worry about? Is sales tax something I have to worry about I keep hearing about it? Like so many questions, right? And what was the first thing people do when they have questions? They Google it, right? But then Google gives you a lot of different answers, especially when you’re new at Google, very technical. Things like this right? They like one person might tell you one thing or another forum another thing and you get more confused at the end of the day. So the course is kind of like our answer to that. It’s kind of like a definitive answer book for these guys about tax accounting, and just operational know how about, you know, business strategies they can implement for their business every step of the way, it kind of sets that foundation right from the start, that as they scale their business, they able to utilize what they learned from the course to cover themselves not fall so far behind. Know what the best, I would say fundamentals to have as far as bookkeeping, as far as tax planning as far as strategy they could be using. Now, when this course is not, of course, asking them do to do this themselves. This course is saying, hey, if you eventually go to a stage where you need a CPA, when accountant to help you with stuff, you know, the right questions to ask, right? Even if you’re interviewing someone who’s in accounting, like, Oh, do you covered this? Do you understand Aspen? Do you know what this is? They kind of they kind of can give you, you know, to kind of be like, Oh, this guy’s knowledgeable. I can’t I can’t be as this person. You know, it’s like, Okay, this person was talking about so and it gives you a chance to be like, I can’t work with this guy. He doesn’t know anything about ecommerce, you know? So it also gives it gives you that perspective, too. So we have we broken out into modules where we would cover tax planning, we cover business strategies for them, we cover how what’s the difference between all the corporate structures, you know, LLC, C Corp, S corp, and just being a sole proprietorship we tell you what was our recommendation for sales tax. And at the end, we also have a course, a module on just financial independence, right? We really want to emphasize, hey, you made it what what can you now do with that money? You know, how best Can you cash flow and plan for the future? Right? So that’s what we really want want to do for the for the ecom owners out there who have all these questions that we’ve seen online, so And yes, and for the, for the listeners out there of the podcast, you know, we will love to give you guys a 20% off discount on course that we just launched last month, I’ll send a code to Josh, but I think it’s going to be Chronos20. So yeah, hopefully you guys can get some great value out of it. And one of one of the options for the course is a consulting call that you can have with me with, you know, after you get to 50% of the course, and still have questions, we’re happy to get on a Zoom call with you and answer anything we can for you. And usually we can provide great value on those calls.

Joshua Chin 32:13

What’s the link that people should go to? For those listening?

Alan Chen 32:17

Yeah, so if you’re interested in the course, you can just go to freecashflow.io/course, and interested in just, you know, checking out the agency side that we have to offer if you’re at that six figure mark, just go to be freecashflow.io/book.

Joshua Chin 32:31

Awesome. Alan, what’s uh, do you have any last advice? Final advice for people listening?

Alan Chen 32:38

Yeah, yeah. One final thing I want to, I want to say, Josh, for the listeners out there is now that, you know, you have worked so hard, I’ve seen entrepreneurs, poured their hearts and sweat into the business. Don’t give away what is rightfully yours, right? Don’t give away what you rightfully earn in your business. And we see that mistake over and over again, where, you know, when, because they don’t realize how tax and accounting works. They, they, they don’t focus on it, they don’t pay attention to it, they hire anyone off the street, or their uncle’s uncle CPA, who knows nothing about online businesses, and they just filed a tax with them. And then they just like, okay, you have to pay this much. I guess, I guess I do this, this accountant told me to right. But as you didn’t, don’t show your business at all, they just took what you tell them and voted down like tax tax file is essentially very easy, right? Just a bunch of forms. It but then you really understand the numbers behind them, and why you’re doing that, to really get into tax planning. And that’s where the tax saving comes from. Right? It’s not just filling out that form. So we really want to tell them, like really pay attention to it. Right? If you get to a certain point in business, and you’re making a good amount of money, but at the end of the day, you see, this is how much profit you have. Don’t give away more of that. Right? Like, don’t give away more of your profit margin to the government entities, you’re happy to take it. Uncle Sam is not gonna be like, yo, you overpaid. Here’s some of the money back. You know, what, no, they got to take what you file what you want to pay them, it’s like, Okay, this guy want to pay me this much sure sounds good. So I would just want to say just pay, just pay attention to that, right? So you don’t you don’t have to, you know, get the course or anything, but just just google things just really learned this aspect of your business. It is very important. We have seen business owners were able to recover another 10 to 15% of profit, just from paying attention to accounting, tax keeping. So it’s no small fry. It really can give you that revenue stream that cash flow to produce scale your business and really grow it when you didn’t think you have that cash flow remaining in your operation. So yeah, I would say just really focus on accounting and tax going into business as you scale higher and higher, especially as you go into six seven figure marks.

Joshua Chin 34:36

Alan, thank you so much for being on the show.

Alan Chen 34:38

Yeah, thank you so much, Josh.

Outro 34:42

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