Matt Orlic 5:30

Yeah, look, I think I had a realization about four years ago, when I made the move to Croatia, that something wasn’t right within me. I just felt like the hustle lifestyle and the constant need for the gratification of success for a monetarist perspective. I knew that hedonic adaptation would keep like ruining me, and I never would be truly fulfilled. Then, I started doing a bit more research, and I came across self actualization. And I understood that there was a process that maybe I had to undertake at the time, having achievable based on Maslow stuff, or the other stuff, hierarchical stuff. And so I began that process. And there really isn’t a structured process this right, it’s like a highly flexible term and like to try to seek doctors around the world, psychiatrists, nutritionists, anyone that could add value to this journey, and try and help me along the way. So I could put the pieces of the puzzle together myself. And one thing that I really did learn was, there’s a difference in how you make your money. There’s authentic money and there’s inauthentic money that one of my mentors told me. And the difference is that authentic money is generated from something that you love so much, you’d pay the other person to do, if that makes sense. So the easiest example I can give to you would be an artist, you know, artist would happily pay someone to sing in front of the audience, but instead of paying him I think one of the brands that I developed weren’t so authentic, to me, I credit a lot of inauthentic money, which was, I guess, was, was causing some kind of cognitive dissonance within myself, right. And those are definitely part of why I just wouldn’t be wouldn’t been as fulfilled as I should have been. Because I really had everything. I had the freedom, the time the money to do what I want, I was very young, like 28 years old. So there’s no reason I’d friends family. There’s no reason for me at all to feel any type of I don’t know what the right word is maybe negatively towards life. So this was definitely one of the clutch things that I had to try and rewire my brain and re re engineer like how I did business. And if I want to do business, I got to factor in business means in the products that I sell, like, you know, the stuff that I’m selling, do I really enjoyed that much. So I really believe in it that much, am I using those products every day. And now I’m starting a new brand. And in the year which like I’m really reverse engineering, that whole, my whole life of business where it’s always very customer centric, right? It’s like, do what the customer does. Let’s look at trends. And this, and this is not the way I’m doing anything anymore. It’s more like, what the fuck do I like, and if sound bites on visor, and surely when you re re engineer your mindset to do something, it’s clear authentic to you, I think that the quality and the standards really goes through the roof, like the stuff I’m doing now. It’s harmful, I think anyone not want to buy it. Because it’s authentic to me, to the point where if it’s an apparel line, as an example, I’m doing the best, most innovative expensive materials. I’m doing the column black because I only wear black. Like I’m playing I just playing a business view that’s been so authentic and so aligned with your life, and not worrying about if anyone’s gonna buy it. You know, I think just books in the service is paramount to, you know, potentially living more a better human experience.

Joshua Chin 8:51

That makes it really interesting because at the same time, you’re going to be I guess, repelling a lot of people who, and prospects and clients potential clients that just don’t resonate with what you’re doing. But you’re attracting probably a crowd of raving fans that truly resonate with who you are as a human being and what your business stands for.

Matt Orlic 9:14

Yeah, okay, well. But I think this is a big part of this. For people that don’t understand, right? It’s um, your company also also becomes by who’s who buys your product. And people don’t think about it enough. So the person that buys your product is still the extension of your company, and it can affect your company. Yeah, so for example, you know, and if you also fought always for the money, which a lot of companies eventually do, then you’re attracting potentially a complete different crowd or aura or to the city to exactly what your company is all about. And that could also ruin your company. And I’ve seen him multiple times that they that they’ve happened, where companies are just restructuring and creating products and stuff like that based on where the market is not where the founder And their vision. And I think there’s that this alignment as well, which poses a bit of havoc. Yeah, in a person’s life.

Joshua Chin 10:07

Interesting. Now, for people listening who might think that are, this is probably a trade off between being successful in traditional sense and like a, like revenue wise or making good profits versus being authentic and, and the alignment of yourself. That’s I don’t think that’s true. From my from firsthand experience, and seeing what you’ve done with the brands that you’ve worked with, and aggressive, you’ve created yourself. So let’s dive into one of the common clients that we we have and just walk through that process of how you found success in scaling that that brand. And we’re talking about, I guess you could, we could define the category as a lifestyle home. Yeah, home lifestyle type product?

Matt Orlic 11:01

Lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah, I think we spoke about this earlier, as well. And one thing I realized in in the agency world was that we focused on media buying style. And then we developed a system called eCom Pentagon, which was was five pillars. The first one was setting up the attribution as well as you can in this in this domain, and having a tracking and leads correct set up from day one. Number two, was, I think we had the CRO. Part number three was the email. Number four was the content. And then number five was media buying. So many buying really comes in loss of all this stuff, right? The first four pillars weren’t done to a somewhat of a satisfactory level, we couldn’t do our job. More, we realized this more realize that. Also, if you’re going to hire agencies, or each separate, I guess, pillar, and they’re gonna be top agencies is gonna be very expensive. So we have to start developing all the services in house as well, just so we could, I guess, make sure that whole ecosystem worked, then we could do our media buying job and keep him at buying business in a sense. So we ran some services like CRM or email for some clients until we started working with you. All that costs, the just so we know media buying would work going and consulted them on consecration non stop, which is nothing more than ever. Yeah, the Achilles heel for a lot of people these days. So we have focused on that, really. And then once we once we start implementing that holy the income Pentagon’s people’s businesses, you know, there’s like, I think in the one year, we took people from 500 grand to like, over eight figures, that three times in the first year, out of four or five clients, took one from five meals, 150 mil, as you know, and yeah, that seems to be the holistic approach, like it has to be done. And we’ve had a holistic approach, or you’re just using shut up pill, because what it means is that US media buyers are constantly trying to find tactics in order to get sales. And this is also a dangerous slope for businesses, because he’s constantly relying trying to find tactics, then what does that do that further enhances your ability to do shit on the other side of the business? Does that make sense? Yeah, it gives that leeway to not make quite a bit better product or service because that leeway to not create a better website gives a leeway to do better emails, because constantly finding tactics, although short term was like a good thing was actually a detriment for people’s brands, we realized because they are the founders tactics just really gave them empower them to not focus on the other side of the business where they should.

Joshua Chin 13:41

And that’s, that’s really interesting, because I’m kind of from an integration standpoint, I would imagine that the that this is a secret sauce to success for for seven figure brand, versus an eight figure brand versus a nine figure brand. Like the one that we worked on, would be really different. But what you’re trying to say is that the phone like foundationally, you got to have those key pillars in check. Before you actually switch things on and media buying and scale things to the moon. One, is there like? Is there a face that brands go through as you bring them from 500k to five mil to 150 mil?

Matt Orlic 14:24

In terms of what would you mean by that? Sorry?

Joshua Chin 14:27

What kind of like is there like an evolution that you that you see, in terms of like a brand, just reaching the first seven figures. This is the typical mindset that people would have versus an eight figure brand versus a nine figure brand.

Matt Orlic 14:47

I think the only thing that really changes for the businesses is the the confidence they have in the business to invest more in terms of like brand stuff like content development and their product. And then all that really happened. Once we have that model down pat, they just scale vertically or horizontally, they either go into other new markets right around the world, or they start expanding the product line now, because we have the system in place where they have that solid customer repeat business or depending what type of business it is. So I think that’s everything, it really changes. But in terms of their mindset, they just started focusing more on Yeah, either growing vertically or horizontally.

Joshua Chin 15:25

What about mistakes? In crossing that chasm from seven to eight figures and eight, nine, any common mistakes that you see.

Matt Orlic 15:43

Look, I know a couple of clients that the difference between say the nine figure client and an eight figure client was that level of investment are prepared to make to upscale their brand. And the only thing that I can really see is the amount of money that the nine figure brand reinvested into stuff like content and, and potentially hiring input hire macro influencers, etc. Where the rest were trying to, like, keep the profits and and take the money out because they’ve been. So I guess the money wasn’t there in the past. And now the money’s there and I just started taking out of the business rather than reinvesting it. I think that’s that’s really the only difference that I’ve seen anyway, from, from my perspective,

Joshua Chin 16:27

Interesting, what do you think the future of we’re taking the leap here, but what’s the future of ecommerce and that and advertising in your space?

Matt Orlic 16:39

I mean, it’s very simple. It’s literally product and content. That is a product content and influenced, I guess, if you can wrap that in with content, adding media buys, media buying is going to become more and more irrelevant, as the years go on. Email would fall under content, as well, but definitely brought brought first content. Second, you know, the market is so saturated with everything like unless you focus on your product, to give yourself some kind of, I guess, unique selling point or, or a narrative where people can actually buy into, that’s probably the most important thing, by far.

Joshua Chin 17:22

A good product first, and then good content that supports that narrative?

Matt Orlic 17:26

A narrative yeah, a narrative. And this is where you go wrong, I think approach for building brands is that we start with a narrative, right? And then we’ve done narrative, then we end we obviously use different consultants with this process. But we get up a narrative, after we create the narrative, then we think of the name that’s based on the narrative. Once we have the name, then we go for the logo that’s built off the name of the narrative, right? And then we started creating a product that synergistically makes sense in terms of the narrative, you know, the logo and the colors and everything else, where people just go straight product, and then it’s very hard to lay the foundations from day one, then go back and try and re engineer everything and, and architect something that’s going to be, I guess, true to the product, when really the process was designed from day one.

Joshua Chin 18:17

Interesting. This, this reminds me of the whole the whole drop shipping boom that happened in I think 2016, 17, 18. Do you think I guess Do you think that drop shipping is still a viable business model in 2021 and beyond?

Matt Orlic 18:39

Man, I don’t know why anyone would want to fucking dropship, like unless they’re doing just to learn? I get it that makes sense. And if you do do some moral integrity and sell a product that’s actually decent, and that people yeah, are going to enjoy but really end the day what equity do you have in a drop shipping business model? You’re not dropping really any equity, I think, maybe years ago, you could feel for people into buying drop shipping brands or stores. But I think today, the value of them is dropping significantly, anyone gonna save more money than brains wouldn’t really purchase a drop shipping business online, you know, so there’s no real exit option either. But it’s fantastic model to learn. And test right.

Joshua Chin 19:27

I think that the playing field is kind of leveling and more power is going towards the consumers and there’s more choices transparency, and and they’re getting smarter. They’re getting a lot smarter, and people are getting smarter. There’s so many options out there now and there’s it’s just way too difficult to fool a consumer with a shitty product.

Matt Orlic 19:51

Not just that, like I’ve seen stuff for clients where they use some some generic product review images, and you see some of the comments like This, this is a generic photo, showing like, people, consumers, even that away these days, I can tell between a authentic review photo and something is just the way it is.

Joshua Chin 20:13

Now, talking about authenticity, if, let’s say, let’s say I run a brand that is moderately successful at, let’s say, seven figures annually, and I don’t have a brand identity, and I don’t know where to begin with creating a good narrative that would help me create strong content pillars that will help me scale the business to eight and nine figures. Where should I begin?

Matt Orlic 20:43

In terms of creating a new brand new saying, or just focusing on your existing brand? Both. So like, if you have an existing brand, I think it’s very important to have a solid brand communication strategy in place, you know, that is, for me, that’s a super powerful brands that we develop in house and then we work with it, because then that is like the, I guess, the structure and the framework in terms of what you do content, you copy everything that we have some consultants we work with. One of them is called I think it’s Synthetic or something I can I can give you the link to their website after you get in the show notes you want. Yeah, sure. And they they help they’re out of Lithuania. I’ve used them personally for about seven of our brands. And I know I’ve referred them for at least four or five of our clients. And everyone’s been, yeah, extremely happy with them. Synthetics, I think it’s Yeah, I don’t even know they’re changing. They recently bought another agencies they rebrand or something. So I’m not sure exactly the name. But I’m sure you can add in the show notes.

Joshua Chin 21:48

Yeah, I will link them up in the show notes for sure.

Matt Orlic 21:50

So, so they’ve been fantastic. We use them for the the narrative and the brand communication piece. And then you know, from that, that’s where you stem your identity, right. But without focusing on that, and that narrative, I think your brand’s slightly lost, especially in the market today.

Joshua Chin 22:07

But let’s talk about the brand that you’re planning on launching in line and helping other entrepreneurs achieve self actualization and pairing that up with the fitness apparel line that’s coherent with what you believe in. Walk me through that launch process of how you plan to launch that brand.

Matt Orlic 22:29

Yes, so. So for that, that’s that story, two and a half years in the making. This brand says it’s taken a while. So first of all, was I think there’s there’s a lot of, I guess the hesitation and me were like I really wanted to do it was more around the validation piece, or was it something that I really wanted to do? There’s a lot of simulations I had to run personally to make sure that we’re going to do this, you know, we’re gonna do it properly. And this is what I’m going to invest my time and life into. So from day one, we did the same thing. You know, firstly, we we created the architecture around your narrative. What’s the brand about what does it stand for? And then then I started looking at what’s I guess, authentic to me in terms of what I use every day? What do I love doing and because we had businesses in the past and still do that have licenses to Under Armour and Umbro, from apparel perspective, I’ve always been into sports apparel. So the idea was to create sports apparel off the back of this education company, and potentially some organic like supplements like liver supplements, etc. We’re creating a vitamin D lamp, a portable vitamin D lab, because I use a vitamin D lamp when I travel if we don’t have Sonic cetera. So anything that really is like authentic to me, I’m just creating this, I’m really creating for me, which sounds crazy, like even for the apparel designer from Nike, which is very in line with, like, what I’m trying to do and he he’s, it’s funny, like we’re just so aligned in terms of our beliefs, that it just is a perfect match. You know, we’re making the stuff the fabrics from nature, you know, we’re manufacturing Italy, even like a make me factory in China. Because in the day, I don’t want to live in the country. Like why would I get the country to produce something for me? Yeah, that makes sense. Like, it’s really every step of the way just trying to I hate using that word over and over but like based on this authentic I guess something that’s intrinsically motivation mattering to me. So if I make the PowerPoint I want it to be honored to be black, I want it to be elevated and minimalistic aesthetic, I want to use the highest quality innovative natural fibres possible. So anything that literally I want that I would use every day we are creating, and we are going to have a podcast show as well. We have to hopefully bring a lot of people on in different spaces from psychology to nutrition, etc. And these are all people that I want to speak to myself anyway right which I enjoy speaking with people like yourself so in the day, there is so much research out there. Once you cross the the breakout point of I think it’s about 100,000 us or slightly lower, even 90. Once adaptation kicks in that there actually is no more joy out of making more money. And that’s been proven time and time again. So if I make $100,000 a year, and I’m doing all these things that I fucking love, I’m sure and we better off than making, you know, this might sound really stupid people but a million dollars from other boring shit that I actually do not like. I know that everyone that until you make a million dollars, then you won’t know how like, realistic What I’m saying is I get that, because if someone told me that before I made up like No, fuck, that if I make a million bucks, I’ll be fucking cheering. But yeah, that’s my internal belief at the moment. Well, that’s true forever or not? I don’t know. But more and more. I speak about this topic. And like, I don’t even speak about it. Like before the conversation we had. Now before the podcast, I’ve mentioned something slightly about that, and immediately sparked your interest. And this happens, every single entrepreneur I speak with every single one. So it’s, there’s definitely something there and what we’re doing, the brand’s called me versus something that we’re doing with me versus there. We have like biotech engineers, we have neuro scientists that are all part of the company. Everything’s validated all the work we’re doing so yeah, we’re just really interested to see when we go to market, because what we’re trying to do is just very different, I think and the language that we use, and the narratives that were that we’re pushing is very against what the mainstream Yeah, is, is talking about, cuz I think, even personal developments of certain extent can really fuck you up. You know, I followed all the traditional business development things in the past, but you know, that they lead you to the Mars and then once you get to Mars, like what the fuck trust them all at once go to Mars school. Does that make sense?

Joshua Chin 26:52

That makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense. And I think came across that study as well. It’s I think it’s more more like 80k a year 80 something K a year?

Matt Orlic 27:01

I think it was three years ago, maybe like inflation might be like 90 or 100. Today or whatever. But yeah.

Joshua Chin 27:09

Yeah, so I think it’s just, you know, interestingly, coming from a place of like my I come from really modest background, my parents, we grew up in a kind of like a middle, lower middle class family in Malaysia, we’re born and raised. And we went through a whole kind of upheaval of personal and business bankruptcy in the family, we never really bounce back from that. And it was going from doing okay to just doing like shit as a family. And that kind of fueled me for a long time of just, you know, making money to reach a place of financial security and stability. And then once I reach that place, that same momentum kind of propelled me to the next stage and, and on and on. And I think it’s, it’s apparent that at some point in time, I will realize that I don’t think I’m there yet. But I realized that there has to be some deeper meaning to your pursuit than just chasing bigger numbers.

Matt Orlic 28:16

And you know, what I recommend to everyone, and I’ve done and it’s a lot tougher than it sounds like I haven’t worked for last three years. That’s actually very hard. Like when you spend your whole life like hustling, working 12, 14 hours a day, whatever. And then all of a sudden, you like do not work, a lot of should come to the surface. And I really believe that we don’t have any better alternatives for ourselves, then to work, right? We have boring, boring lives, which we sit in office all day, or whatever we’re trying to do. We’re focused on business. And we don’t have any other assets on the side to validate what we’re doing here. Because we have no other option if you’re not working, what are you doing? Like? I don’t even know Gary Vee, I’m sort of touched on cuz everyone knows him. And there’s probably there’s probably not enough context here. But like, he speaks about the hustle everything day, like, How boring could fucking the rest of his life be? If he has 10s and 10s of millions of dollars. And all he could think about doing is sitting in a room with people all day. Like, he hasn’t created the alternatives to validate what he’s doing in that office. Does that make sense? Like, through I realized when I started like skydiving, wake surfing, was playing music like I created or doing shoot my friends, traveling, whatever it is, when I started creating all these different assets in my life. Now that had to compete with my work, right? Like I’d rather be doing this or working, or before. It was like, What would I do if I didn’t work? Does that make sense? I mean, you kind of get lost, I think within that, right? And that’s what keeps us in there. And then we keep thinking, wondering why we’re not potentially sort of build a super happy and we keep chasing, chasing, chasing, it’s like a drug essentially. Then next here, but and now at least I know whatever I’m doing in my mind, I validate as much as I can, because I do have other alternatives which I could be doing, which I love doing. And if I really choose to this one thing I must really, really fucking want to do. It’s not really just about the money.

Joshua Chin 30:14

And I think that shows in, in, in the nature, the relationships that you have with your clients and what I’ve seen and observed from an outsider’s point of view. And obviously, virtually, but it tells that you’re there in that relationship because you want to not because you have to. Exactly and you’re working because you want to know because you have to get that. That’s huge. And I think it’s hard to find that and, you know, working with an agency, let alone an employee or a partner. So that’s incredible. What’s your philosophy in, in? In, in exiting businesses, because I, I know you’ve done that a few times.

Matt Orlic 31:02

Yeah I’ve exited a few in the past that are like, then again, like, my mindset now is why why would I ever exit a business that I love doing? Like exiting to me makes no sense in this part of my life? Now, if the business is truly like, amazing to me, like, think about it now, like the business I’m talking about reverse now. Why would I ever want to exit that? If that’s everything that’s structured around what I love doing in my life, know what I mean? Yeah. Should you know that that should give me energy every day, not me having to force myself to work. So yeah, that’s now but back in the day, it was all around. Yeah, exiting and building equity in the brands and exit? Because that’s when the real paydays I think, you know, working for profits non stop. It’s, it’s, it’s tiring and relentless. But exiting is like that big paycheck. And then the day kind of feels like Oh, fuck, okay, maybe that was worth it.

Joshua Chin 31:51

Makes sense? What’s your advice for brands, on still on their journey from seven to eight to nine figure mark. And still in the middle of that, that that growth and the chaos that you know very well, what’s your number one advice?

Matt Orlic 32:10

Focus on content, focus on content and your product, you know, focus on content, your product, no product is your community interaction with them. You know, that, for me are the real assets for that differentiates businesses today. Digital Marketing, I think can only get you so far today, obviously, was a lot easier. years ago, you could do a whole business just on your digital marketing skills. But I’ve seen some entrepreneurs now where they’ve done a one to one business years ago, and they think they can do it again. But it’s they can’t you know what I mean. It’s not that simple. These days. Wasn’t kind of, just Facebook now to bootstrap a business and gets you to that seven figures? And then you can start? Yeah, it’s very different, I think. So focusing on your product and content.

Joshua Chin 33:01

Talking about content, what are some brands that you personally look up to? or enjoy on a personal level that produces great content?

Matt Orlic 33:14

That’s a good question. I don’t really have an answer for you.

Joshua Chin 33:20

Just like you’re just not a big consumer?

Matt Orlic 33:22

No, this is the problem, right? Yeah, I just don’t get consumed much. You’re exactly right. So I’m really not they consuming much. Like me, for me great content is like, the Nikes dream crazy ad, something that can take you to a place by watching it, you know, and, and inspire to do it. Anything that’s educational, anything that adds value to someone’s life, I think for me, is good content, whichever way that be brands that focus on education, for me is fantastic. And they get the customer and by giving them some value for an educational perspective, other brands do for inspirational desirable purposes. brands do it in in different ways. But we haven’t had an effect with your content on someone personally, no matter which way you have on their life. I think that’s that’s the key, not just direct response, like I’ve been pumping out. Buy buy buy. You know, you got a problem. That’s the solution.

Joshua Chin 34:20

That works with short term in at some point in time, I guess brands have to start that, that that evolution into building a community and that relate a relationship that goes beyond just a transaction?

Matt Orlic 34:34

Yeah, I really do. I really think it’s hard. You know, it’s extremely hard, especially today, because you want to put money in you want to get money back. And instantly. We’re used to that, right? And we’re in a society that that rewards that consistently. Everything’s on fucking demand. And then why shouldn’t business be especially if you scour Facebook and swarm on this stuff, and then you see people posting screenshots of this store, doing This amount of numbers and this month return on adspend. You know during the history or the people behind it, like, I know, one ad account I’ve got now rise like 35. But the brands been around for so long. And it’s just more, you know, middle to bottom of the funnel domain. So it looks fucking that ever I’m going crazy like this. So people do their people very manipulative online and because they can hide behind I think the keyboard screen I mean like if I don’t think they do that they tell the same information. It was like someone’s face across the table. But on the computer, they seem to be slightly deceiving. When I’ve seen I’ve seen founders deceive, and ones that have big businesses, and they’re losing the burning money every month. But everyone thinks they’ve got $100 million business and to get to the next billion dollar brand. But they can’t. They can’t pay bills, like, yeah, simple. And so I saw no way in the world I would have ever thought that. So tread carefully out there, I think and I get I understand why people don’t want to invest in the stuff that we just spoke about. Because, you know,

Joshua Chin 36:00

They want boring. It’s not. Yeah, it’s not instantaneous. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And people, I guess people got to be careful about who they listen to, and who they get their advice and information from?

Matt Orlic 36:16

Yeah this is huge. This is huge. I think. In the guru world, especially. It’s funny, um, some of the gurus make more money selling their courses, when they’re doing their own ecommerce stores. Yeah, is completely fucked. Like do you know what I mean, like, how can you teach someone, I can email make money from educational stuff, then what you’re doing if you’re an ecommerce store is, that’s amazing or horrible. But that’s why it’s so hard as well. But then that’s such a good job marketing themself as a personal brand. They buy into it. But I think that’s that’s one thing. Someone is marketing so much as a personal brand. And spending money on that, and then making money from that. I would argue like, How good are they actually doing it? The thing that I should teaching? Because if they were they probably wouldn’t be teaching, to begin with, to be honest.

Joshua Chin 37:01

Hmm. That makes sense. And I guess it’s some to some degree, that’s, that’s also the catch. If, if you’re, if they’re good enough to teach you, they probably wouldn’t be teaching you. But if, if they’re teaching you, you got to be really careful as to do they have a proven track record. What did our stats actually look like? And, you know, what, where? Why are they out there teaching you in the first place.

Matt Orlic 37:31

This is why I think all that to do is invest in mentors, rather than these gurus. I think mental are a lot more valuable. I remember, I invested at the time when Facebook Like, was a bit later, but I was paying 10,000 US dollars a month for mentor? Wow, this was five years ago. Right? I used by he’s one of the best in Facebook Like, and for him to take that money and and work with me one on one was actually wasn’t one on one things like a little group thing. But we had one on one access. That made sense for him to if he’s the best and always charging that that’s worth his time. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And this to me made sense. And that once one interaction with him, and so and to see what he was doing on a daily basis in you know, working with some of the biggest people in Facebook in terms of that’s been one of the things we learned a lot from from him at the time. But that made sense. These you know, these courses and stuff like that. And I don’t know that the viewers that to me doesn’t make sense. But mentorship does make sense.

Joshua Chin 38:31

Love that. Now, final question. If you had a billboard, in the middle of the busiest highway in the world, what would that billboard say?

Matt Orlic 38:44

They would say it’s never what you look at. It’s what you see. That’s true.

Joshua Chin 38:50

Okay, interesting. Tell me more. What does that mean?

Matt Orlic 38:55

I think it’s just general philosophy of life. It’s, it’s, you know, we currently choose when we look at a time, we can always choose what we see. And I think if you take that abundance mindset into no matter what you do, I think you’ll be ahead of most people.

Joshua Chin 39:09

That’s a great way to close, Matt, thank you so much for being on the show. And if people are interested to connect with you, how should I reach out?

Matt Orlic 39:16

Fuck, I think 100 of our websites still works. And maybe put it in the notes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. The email is [email protected].

Joshua Chin 39:28

[email protected]. And if that doesn’t work, check out the show notes. And have you guys linked out there that most interesting thing about you guys is that you work for some of the fastest, most incredible brands on Shopify in Australia and some of the common clients we work with. But your your website is just so outdated man, you don’t have any of those, you know, amazing logos and screenshots.

Matt Orlic 39:58

That’s what I’m saying like you Yeah, we’re like in the dark. We’re like, yeah.

Joshua Chin 40:04

I think for for brands who that actually discover you guys and working with you guys are in a really good position. It’s like finding a goldmine.

Matt Orlic 40:16

That’s what I’ve been told multiple times. I think the reason why we keep like that is because we haven’t had the need to grow. And we like our clients. So while we’ve asked for like, three, four years, and then they haven’t left you, I mean, think only one left during this current period because of the situation. But apart from that we keep to a small number of clients that we spend a lot of money with and we love working with. They love working with us. And yeah, they’re intending to onboard a new client in like a year or two. Yeah.

Joshua Chin 40:46

I love that, man. That’s awesome. Matt, thank you so much for your time. And thank you for being on the show man.

Matt Orlic 40:52

Pleasure. Thank you. Bye Bye.

Intro 40:56

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