John Readman 4:12
I think there’s, arguably, again, this is a bit of a cop out, but there’s, there isn’t one answer to fit that if you It depends, I suppose a lot of startups start off in social media, and they’ll start doing some social media or search, social media search, and they’ll have some initial success immediately. And then they keep repeating that success. And fundamentally, the question I often ask Jay, a scalable startup growing businesses once you prove your website can trade. So I mean, once you prove your website can sell and convert a customer, a potential customer lands on the site, and you’ve proved you can convert that into a paying customer. Once you prove that you should really start exploring. Well, where are my customers? hanging out? Where are they out there? And how can I get them from where they’re hanging out onto my website? And understanding, I suppose, as part of that, where they may be in the in the sort of purchase funnel to where are they? Are they in research? Or are they actually sort of consideration? Or are they actually sort of the bottom of the funnel of conversion, and search is very good. At the lower end of the funnel, rise to someone searching for a specific widget that you make, and you sell that widget boom, like, the time might be quicker, paid social, I think is now more. As well as being a product sales channel. It could also be a display, branding channel. And then I suppose its other things, which I think a lot of startups and scaleups are scared of, sometimes is where does affiliate marketing fit in? And also, where does like display or video or even potentially out of home or TV or all these other things? Where does that fit in? And I think because people sometimes struggle to prove the last clip wins, or that clip drove that revenue, they really find it difficult to get their head around, well, why would I invest in that? When I can keep spending pounds here? And I suppose what a good conversation about attribution would do is, is link the incrementality of those channels. And I think that’s, that’s really what people need to get their head round is, well, if I do this on Facebook, it will also not only drive impressions and visit visits from Facebook, it might also increase search. And, and I also think it’s a risky strategy for a brand to have just a one channel by I saw many, many, many companies struggle when iOS 14 update came along. And their primary channel was Facebook. And it was like, what, what what’s happening, what’s going on the algorithms getting affected and the outlier, what really happened was everybody a lot of people panicked and came out to the algorithm didn’t have as much data to learn from those people that stayed in, so a drop off in their performance as well. So fundamentally, the way the algorithm had been working was using data that was no longer available to it. So Facebook still had eyeballs, and still had people using it. But the way in which their advertising algorithm worked, it couldn’t work in the same way. So I think that they’re sorting that out. And you’ve got to change your Facebook strategy. But to answer your question, specifically, I would say as soon as you can prove that your website can convert and trade, you should look at all the different potential traffic sources, and then understand what where do they maybe map them out, we’ll get a big flip chart a big whiteboard, and map out right, which channel works in which area of the funnel? And then understand right, what my Well, what have I tested? What do I willing to test, as was also where it might be different for your personas of customers? Alright, so in certain channels work better for certain age groups or certain demographics. But yeah, so I would say earlier, rather than later and try and avoid being addicted to just one channel, but it’s very easy gesture when it’s working. And you’re putting I know, a few $1,000 into Facebook every month and outcomes 10 times that it’s very easy just to keep putting the money in testing and learning. So
Joshua Chin 8:19
exactly what you know, what I’ve what I’ve come to kind of experience over the years is that so many years, right? So just a couple of years, at the beginning of the kind of Shopify boom, was when surf where Facebook ads was super easy to run, where any amount of money that you put into Facebook was essentially giving you money, and it’s printing profits. And there’s, I suppose, some sense of complacency that comes with with an experience like that. And then taking that experience to like versus what we experienced right now, were running ads, and Facebook isn’t as easy as what it used to be anymore. And we are forced to be a little bit more prudent with how we spend, and how we optimize our allocation of a marketing budget. Now, I want to dive a little bit deeper into the planning stage of marketing, because that’s, you know, planning isn’t necessarily a term that we necessarily think very deeply about at the small medium size level businesses. stage wherein we we’re thinking about Facebook ads, and Instagram, and we’re optimizing for those channels. And I’m going to Google and I’m optimizing for Google. And we’re going to email optimizing for Google for email. And I’m not thinking about how it interacts with one another. Can you talk a little bit about the halo effect across the channels as well? So what does success look like? What is the ideal? What is the ideal look like for a well planned out? marketing budget set of budgets,
John Readman 10:02
I think. Right, so I’m going to answer your question by saying that we, we shouldn’t look at it that way. So I’m, so I’m gonna sort of challenge that a little bit. So I think, what what people need to understand to scale their business, ultimately, is, what’s their sort of customer acquisition cost? Or what is their return on adspend, or their cost of sale that they’re willing to accept? So we often in the past have spoken to clients. In fact, I was talking to a client only yesterday and goes, Oh, I’ve got $20,000 to spend. And I said, right, was that because that’s my budget for the next couple of months? And I said, right. Okay, so I think that’s the wrong way to look at it. Because I think I see a better way to look at it is if you’re selling a product for, say, $100, and you’re making $50 profit, right? Of that $50? Profit? How much are you willing to spend to make more $50? So let’s say, are you willing to spend? Are you actually willing to spend $10? To make 40? Right, so you will take 10 of that 50? And you’re gonna make 40? And you’re gonna keep spending 10? Right? And are you willing to keep doing that? And I think often, what happens as people scale up, it becomes harder, right? Because you’re, you’re gonna get more there’s, there’s this sort of normal distribution of demand versus supply, and it becomes more competitive. Also, you’re probably your costs will probably increase a little bit after employment people. And you might have to move into a bigger distribution, warehouse, or move from your garage and rents and property or whatever it is, so your costs and your business change. So understanding your sort of fully loaded, what is the acceptable customer acquisition cost, and it may be Joshua, if you’ve got a product that people need to keep buying, or there’s a repeat purchase profile, that it’s different for the first purchase, because you might decide, well, I’m going to, I’m going to break even or lose money on my first purchase, because I know, we’re gonna get 10 more purchases, because of amazing email marketing, or SMS marketing, we’re going to keep all these people engaged, and coming back. And actually, we can afford to lose money. So I think the best place to start is actually really deconstructing the costs in your business, and the cost to sell the product, and then working out, what are you willing to spend on marketing. And then what you can do to build a budget or build a plan is understand what’s the demand for my product in those particular channels. So you can go into tools like the Google keyword planner, or the Facebook ad manager, and you can see well, based on my product based on what my market and my audience is, I could probably spend this much. And then I should be able to get this much traffic. And then if you understand your conversion rate on your website, you could start building out and your average order values, you can start building out some sort of forecast. And again, this might all sound very complicated and match days, but I think is really important to understand before you start spending money on Google or Facebook, but what what am I expecting to come out the other end of the sausage machine, alright, so we’re going to put all this stuff in at one end, what’s going to come out and how quickly and so so I think if you understand your cost of acquisition, what you’re willing to spend, understand your average order value as your conversion rates, then you can start building a marketing plan. But I’d start at the other end, and work backwards. And I think often people go, I’ve got $5,000 to spend, or 10,000, or 20,000, I’m going to do it, I’m going to spend on Facebook. And because they haven’t really thought about all of this maths in the process, often they burned through their money really quickly and it didn’t work. And then they’re a bit skeptical. They’re a bit skeptical, and they feel a bit Oh, why didn’t that work? Or that’s actually potentially not that bad, because they learn a lot because they, what could be worse is they put it in and it did work. And it worked really well. But they don’t know why it worked. And they’d still don’t understand their metrics. And they keep repeating, repeating, repeating. And then what will happen at some point, it will stop working, and there’ll be stuck in a channel, potentially, and they don’t know their metrics. So they can’t quickly pivot or move into a different channel. So I think the key thing is just to summarize that is we need to understand what what are we willing to pay to acquire a customer? What are is our average order value on our website and ultimately to calculate then the margin, but also then what’s our conversion rate? And everybody gets obsessed with? I want more traffic and more traffic and more clicks and more eyeballs on my product. Actually, people forget to optimize their conversion rates. And actually, if there’s one key thing you could do, and you guys probably do it on your emails, it’s right. We’ve got to get the open rate up. Yeah, but we’ve also got to get the click through rate that says okay. It’s not just one metric And in once you get people on the website is, well, how can we improve that conversion rate? If you can move that conversion rate by just a small percentage, it’s going to have a significant impact on the business versus buying more traffic, which is normally most marketers answer, and even more traffic and even have traffic anymore traffic. Whereas actually, I think, as part of the the game, you also need to be thinking about what how can we improve conversion? So I went and answered a different question there, Joshua, rather than just focusing on the planning, but I do think people can put a budget together, but they really need to get on top of their metrics first.
Joshua Chin 15:35
No, it’s it’s it’s really good that that that gives me a lot of insights in in terms of how to think about the idea of planning and where to where to begin. What are John, what are some of the things that larger retailers do really successfully, that smaller brands may not be either thinking about or may not be doing all that well?
John Readman 16:00
I, first of all, caveat that there’s a lot of there’s, there’s a lot. So there’s not necessarily assumption that larger brands do things well. So I do think a lot of larger companies do do things well, but just because they’re big doesn’t mean they’re necessarily better. I think often smaller brands that are scaling up are exceptional at their marketing. And also they’re more open to trying new channels. Things I do think larger brands do do well, though, to answer your question is they’re very good with their data. And they’re very good with, say managing feeds are using. So if you’re a brand, and you’ve got 60,000 products, right, that is changing all the time, it’s hugely complex and difficult to update all your ads, or update. So in the middle of all this, there’s, there’s very good and this was a previous business I grew that used to specialize in this area, they will be employing some form of feed management tool. And again, what you really want to do is probably have a master feed in the back of Shopify, for instance, that then feeds into some sort of feed management. But the output you may be need for Amazon, or the output you may be need for TikTok, or Facebook or your affiliate partners, or Bing, or Twitter, or it might all be different. And what a feed management tool will let you do is you just update it in one place, then there’s a series of rules. And then it updates everything everywhere else for you. And I think as you scale the, the more platforms you’re on, the more complex managing those platforms becomes, and then it sucks in all your time. And then you end up in a situation going well, I’m not getting that many sales back channel, I’ll just leave it. And then you probably have out of date ads out of date copy. And actually, that’s worse than having nothing potentially, because it might put people off, who then might have bought a different channel. So having some sort of centralized feed management process and tool will help grow the big retailers wanting to grow and emulate what the big guys do. And I think within there, there’s things around having rules around, don’t bid on. Don’t push anything to Facebook or Google Shopping. If the cost is if the actual retail price is less than $5. Right? Because you could set rules in place rather than just a standard. Take the feed, put it in Google Shopping and everything goes in, you might want to have so then you might also if the stocks below a certain number, don’t put it in it because we don’t want to sell out it. We don’t want to have no product. Or it may also be some of the things that funny often is. People might merchandise and describe their products in a really creative way on their website. Yeah. Usually around colors or shapes or whatever. Yeah, but no, but nobody searches like that. Nobody searches for an aqua ellipse shaped whatever swimsuit, but they’ll search for green swimsuit. Right. Right. So how do you modify what the description that comes in from the website? How do you then make that practical for search or for Google Shopping? So the I suppose utilizing technology to enable you to operate at scale, but in particular sort of feed technology. And there’s loads of really good feed companies out there. In fact, we work with the main one we work with is called product caster. They’ve got a feed manager. They’re quite a cool business, if at all, all our guys use that when they’re helping optimize performance for clients. So they add say, thinking about tools to save time, they give out tools to help them make better decisions and crunch the data because If you’ve if, as you grow, as you know, from email data, there’s huge volumes of data. And just knowing where to spend your time and effort, it becomes the hard thing. And what a lot of scale up and startup businesses do is they often spend the time on the tasks they enjoy doing, rather than necessarily the tasks that are going to make them the most money. So they may really like doing Facebook ads, or doing the creative or doing videos or doing unboxing. Alright, but they probably don’t like keyword cleaning in Google AdWords, right? Or finding new audiences of uploading their CRM data to Google to find look alike audiences, because they don’t necessarily enjoy that side of it. So yeah, so hopefully, that answered the question
Joshua Chin 20:43
that it does. And I do a follow up to that. Now, with kind of latching on to that point in doing things that that we enjoy versus doing thing that’s actually actually effective and productive. One of I suppose one of the ways to get around during around that is to build a team. That’s, you know, that’s better at what we do, in in terms of set of functions that we may not be able to serve ourselves. What’s uh, what are some ideal team structures that you’ve seen, done really well by by brands and retailers and in the ecommerce in the consumer space?
John Readman 21:23
Right, so this is, so I’m a big advocate over time of trying to get as much knowledge within your team as possible, but at the same time getting expert consultants and software to help you, right, so it’s a blend. And I think as you scale up, what you’ll probably have is maybe a young helper, intern grad, or somebody who’s who’s a bit of a bit of a, an all rounder, so they really understand maybe a specialist in one area, but can help with lots of different things, or maybe integrates and liaises with an agency that you’ve got maybe learning your paid search and paid social. And as you grow, I think what the people you need are really, I really do think people need to think about creative. And I think, going forward, the winners, certainly on Facebook, are going to be ones where they’re creating their copy standout. One thing that has happened just in the last 10 years, is because it’s been so performance driven. And it’s money, click money, click money, click, yeah, there seems to seems to be a lost art of writing good copy. I’m writing copy that converts and works and writing, building genuine ads that resonate with people and stop the scroll. Okay, so I think and again, this isn’t probably top on any of your listeners list, they’re probably not saying like, Oh, we need a creative copywriter, or we need to have access to a creative copywriter, or we need to have our own in house ad designer who’s amazing. They’re probably thinking I need as an analyst or mathematician to work out the data, right? Hopefully they understand their own data enough that they don’t need that right now. But I would really think about spending some time and effort on the messaging, understanding your personas. And then thinking about, well, how can we get some of that skill set in house, this probably comes down to the same as subject lines, right? Subject Lines and emails are going to determine whether or not that is opened. And and that is an art in itself, you can probably employ somebody you probably do employ people who are hugely creative, getting that message across in four words or five words. And I think that’s a skill that it’s some people don’t think they need. And again, I suppose building the perfect team, is a difficult question. Because it all depends on how big you are, how much money you’ve got all those things. But I do think there’s a there’s certain skill sets that you do need and I’ll just quick one is someone who’s responsible for paid marketing to paid marketing would be PPC, paid social affiliates, those sorts of disciplines. And then the other side, I think, is you’d probably need some tech SEO person who makes it in also look after ecommerce. But actually, they’re part of their job is measured on keeping on top of the Google algorithm updates to technical changes, making sure we’ve got no errors in our Google Search Console. It’s amazing how many retailers we speak to are on the scale of journey. You can we have access to your Google Search control where we connect all our systems, and you go in and there’s 500 errors that have been there for months. And you think well, who’s going to check it what and a lot of the time they don’t know they need to check. Because they did it. They did all That’s when they set the site up. And now they’re just concentrating on chucking traffic in from paid sources. Alright, so I think somebody who owns the technical side of the site, and then arguably somebody like this creative content person who’s going to own the content, both on site content, but then content that can be linkable, or be shared elsewhere to hopefully generate some links, and, and everything else, I think they’re probably the three core areas to start with. But I also think they all need to report in to the same person, right, where a lot of people get this wrong, is you have ecommerce on one side, and you’re responsible for the site and the platform, and then you have marketing on another side. And sometimes marketing has the budget, but ecommerce have the people doing the work? Yeah. And, and marketing might be reporting into SEO over here, and ecommerce might be reporting into a CTO or an IT director or somebody. And it’s, it’s a really common mistake, that the bigger companies make, and then you end up with this channel conflict internally, and actually can’t get things done or signed off or progress made, because of people trying to protect their own team or protect their own agenda or protect their own job, rather than doing what’s right for the business. And we see this all the time. Because people think websites are an IT thing or an ecommerce thing. But actually, it should be a marketing thing
Joshua Chin 26:21
conversions conversion rate.
John Readman 26:23
Yeah, so So that’s, that’s sort of a bit of my thoughts and insights. And I would say what we’re trying to get to a possible is what we call this T shaped marketer. So somebody who’s got broad understanding and skills across all the different channels, but he’s probably a specialist in one. So they’ve got an understanding of all the digital channels, but they’re a specialist in affiliate, or they’re a specialist in PPC or shopping. So I think over time, that will give you the opportunity to scale and the resilience as a business to cope with changes and things that are coming along.
Joshua Chin 27:00
That makes sense, it sounds like there are some key functions that software and an external parties just cannot, cannot do creatives copywriting, I resonate very strongly with the copywriting piece, I started out as a copywriter. And I’ve seen incredible success and impact on the outcome, especially when it comes to email marketing, by just just writing better copy, spending a little bit more time and then, you know, honing, honing his craft makes a huge impact versus thinking about what’s next tool to use the next software. It’s not necessarily the right needle mover. And that Modo25, you talk about in housing, the idea of in housing, an alternative to the I suppose the dichotomy between doing an in house versus hiring an agency. What is that? What exactly is that? And what’s
John Readman 28:01
so yes, it’s a matter of three fibers. So yeah, so my concept of magnetrons five was, I think there’s a point at which people get to where they’re thinking, well, we’re paying this agency to do this. So we’re paying someone to do our Google Shopping, and our paid social, and actually the cost, I’m paying them, I could probably employ somebody, and we might have some more money to invest in media and budgets. And also, they might be able to do other stuff. And they might add value they might be fun to have around the office. And they might add to the culture of the business, to my fundamental theory, is the certain levels of execution, and campaign management, I believe they can be done in house. So my background has been growing multiple different ecommerce based focused agencies supporting, as you said, some of the world’s biggest retailers, and over time, we’d get these phone calls, and we’re gonna bring it in house. And we would put the phone down and be like this, everybody start crying, and there’d be this like, disastrous meeting about, oh, what are we going to do? And then and then I thought, well, when I’m setting up my next business, and I want to build the software to help predict the future around the dashboard, within Bosco, but how are we going to still keep our hand in as practitioners? I might well, could we not build a business that makes money out of helping people in house? Right? Because the problem of actually happens is people go, I’m gonna go in house, and it’s chop, David amazing. And then I’ve got to work it all out myself. Right? Yeah. But they don’t know necessarily what technology they need. They don’t know necessarily what good looks like, what the first we’ll have to do then is recruit someone from an agency to come and basically set up a mini agency within their business. So what we sort of do is we advise them on strategy of Who do you need, what does your team look like? What processes you need in place, we will then build out their ad platforms and, and systems and process to best practice and then we will help them recruit we have a recruitment team that recruits people for our clients. We will recruit them some people will place people in will train them up, and then over six twelve months, we will hand it to them. And then we will use our software in the background to help them keep an eye on it and predict well actually, that’s going really well keep doing more that needs to be some opportunity there. And our specialists will dive in on a monthly quarterly basis, and still do that sort of quarterly review of what’s the market doing? What’s happening in this channel, what’s Google saying? What’s Facebook, so you sort of get the benefit, you get the benefit the big agency, but without the massive retainer. And so far, a lot of brands and scale up retailers have found that quite useful. So they sort of have a sort of like an agency help desk support without having to pay the big agency fees. And that comes with the predictive analytics and dashboarding software, because that’s the other thing people really struggle is they’re looking in Facebook, they’re looking in TikTok, are they looking Instagram, or wherever, and it has multiple different dashboards that go look at all the time, it’s very difficult to try and make decisions, when you’re also trying to run the business and put things in boxes, ship it out of the door, and, and everything else. It’s there’s a lot going on to the scale of businesses.
Joshua Chin 31:11
It’s a lot, it’s a lot. And the the idea of bringing things in house is, well, it’s a pain that a lot of agencies face, we face that all the time as well. You know, when when you get a phone call, and you go, alright, guess we’re losing a client. I guess this this idea, it’s really interesting to me, because from from an agency’s point of view, it allows for the agency to maintain that relationship and continue to add value, and extend that, that that, that relationship beyond what it would have been, and for the brand to have that support that they need to succeed anyways, versus Alright, I’m gonna pack up in two months. And here’s everything that you got to do on your own now. And why?
John Readman 31:59
Yes, I will, I just, I’d rather have some recurring revenue from clients and have an open friendly relationship with support them on their journey. And then what tends to happen is somebody might leave. Right. And rather than what’s happened before we’ve seen is people take it in house. And if they haven’t had an in house support in the background, it often fails because somebody leaves, right, as they can’t find someone quick enough. And they go, Oh, this is a nightmare. I’m going to outsource it to an agency again. And then they have this sort of Yo Yo yo yo effect in house agency in house at what we’re trying to do is give them some consistency, and also help them retain that knowledge within their business. But they people might leave but then also goes on holiday. And they can phone our guys up and go right, you jump in for a couple of weeks. And just using Yeah, yeah. And it’s, and we just we it’s like a flexible concertina model.
Joshua Chin 32:55
It’s seamless. And have you what are some of the success stories and case studies that you could share where this small has worked out really well?
John Readman 33:04
Yeah, so some of them are with slightly bigger brands, but was a brand called Cult Beauty, then they came to us and they were trying to do? Well, initially one of their challenges, they were trying to understand digital performance across all different channels. So we used our Bosco tool to help them work out what were the different channels, understand attribution, understand the value of the first basket to customer lifetime value. So there’s a whole set of what was the combination of products when in the first basket of the most valuable customers first 12 months. But arguably, then if we can bid more on those products, we know that they’re good, though people who bought those products are going to buy more expensive products over time. That was quite an interesting data project to start with. And then what we started to do with them, as we said, well, we need some better tools, you need to bet tools. And they were at the time on Adobe. The former, what was it called? Efficient Frontier platform, which was like a bid management tool. So they were on that Adobe search tool. And we said, we probably need to move over to Google Search at 360. I always saying Google have gotten good things and why I’m always an advocate of, of trying to think a bit more independent. But in this scenario, Google Search 360 is a very good tool. So we help them migrate search at 360. We manage the migration, we set them up with all their licenses. But then we also trained all their team, so and started helping them recruit people within their team. So and then sort of set about what does best practice look like? How can we help you do that? And then we ran it with them. Then we identified new channels. So we said look, you Why aren’t you doing anything? Why are you doing anything significant in YouTube? Why are you doing anything significant in tech top as well? So we went away, investigated the data, put together a strategy and said Look, here’s an opportunity here. In a new channel, we then executed the channel for three, six months, and then handed it back over to them. But all the time with our dashboard running in the background, helping them, see what we’re doing, but also see where the opportunities lie. And then more recently, They’ve now taken all the execution work in house, but still use the dashboard and still have access to the insight on a quarterly or monthly review sort of basis. And they’ve grown their business significantly, and at the same time, reduce their ROAS. And I think that’s
Joshua Chin 35:37
increase here and increase
John Readman 35:39
their ROI to cut reduced the cost of class. Yes, the cost of sale. And that’s the when you’re selling, say lipsticks, or beauty products, that some of them are quite low value, some of them are very expensive. But being in control of that cost of sale is really important. So yes, we help them increase not only new customers, but for multiple channels, but at the same time driving down the advertising cost. So that’s a very recent example. And then we’ve got another example where we help people scale it to other countries, using both data technology and best practice. Because I think that’s the other thing, often people just get focused on what they know. Rather than thinking, Well, hang on. There’s several 100 million people in America, why can’t I go sell them stuff in America from wherever I am in the world? And I think of that, or I’m in America, and why can’t I sell to the Far East? Or why can’t I sell to Europe, I think people think it’s a lot scarier and a lot harder than it is. But now with global logistics, with global with plugins and tools for Shopify, your pricing, your translation, your currencies, your taxes, and the hassle. 10 years ago, it was really hard. Now, it’s a lot easier and more accessible for any business to sell internationally. But yeah, that’s sort of sort of how I some good case studies of, of how the in housing business helps people. And we’ve even got, we’ve now got grads who are employed by our clients, but they sit in our office. So they’re learning on the job, working on our clients accounts, working on our clients, but also working on other clients. Because sometimes we’ll be like, Oh, we’ve got this really interesting thing we’re doing on affiliate. But we’ve got this really interesting with it, you need to watch this. And it might not be their employers account, but they’re learning because whilst I sat within the agency environment, so we’re just trying to do things slightly differently, Joshua, and so far, so good.
Joshua Chin 37:49
Very interesting. And it makes a ton of sense. And you’re celebrating growth and learning for people are involved in one of the biggest struggles for for ecommerce, especially in the scaling stage and in the recent years have been just hiring. Sorry, you’re solving a massive issue here. John, what is the best way for people listening to contact you get in touch to learn more about BOSCO, and when you do.
John Readman 38:15
So the best way would be to just email john@modo25.com. Or have a look at either of our websites as modo25.com or askBosco.io A S K B O S C O . IO that’s askBosco.IO You have a look at the two different different businesses there or find me on LinkedIn. I’m just John Readman on LinkedIn, R E A D M A N and yeah, I’d love to we do do a special deal for scale up startup businesses if they’ve been around less than two years, and they can show that they’re growing, if they want to have access to our knowledge, expertise, and technology because we like to help people grow. And we’d like to go on that sort of growth, journey and story. We’re working with a really exciting sports fashion brand in the UK at the moment that we’re just trying to help launch in America or Castile. They sponsor like Andy Murray, they also sponsor USA rugby, they sponsor the Samoa rugby team. And Rangers football clubs are really amazing. They’re trying to be like, a luxury version of Nike or Under Armour. They’re really ambitious. So that’s quite exciting. So we love working with fast growth scale up businesses. But yeah, john@modo25 is probably the easiest way to get in touch with me.
Joshua Chin 39:31
Awesome, John, this has been super insightful. Thank you so much for being on the show.
John Readman 39:35
Thanks very much for having me, Joshua.
Outro 39:40
Thanks for listening to the eCommerce Profits Podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get notified of future episodes.
