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Sell Your Business for 9-Figures Twice in 3 Years (Plus a $2B IPO)

Spencer Jan 5:15

Yeah, I’m not super. Yeah, I’m not super rigid. When it comes to routines. I know there’s a lot of a lot of that if you watch YouTube or listen to other content, like everybody’s got their some crazy morning routine where they jump in, yes, bath and, you know, read read books, and meditate and all that stuff. And I don’t know if I’m that rigid. For me, really, the day and the routines revolve more around? My family’s kind of, it’s more around like the school year, right? So if the kids are in school, then we have that kind of to kind of set the routine in the morning. And when do I gotta get them to school? When do I got to drop them off? And then you know, what time do I have before I go pick them up and go to their games and make sure they get run around to their activities at night and making sure we’re eating together at night. And so if it’s the school year, it’s kind of one routine, if it’s the summer, when they’re out, then it’s really a different routine, because we’re probably traveling or going places and staying busy. But I mean, right now, while they’re in school, hey, my daily, my daily routine is I am up by about seven, I get my alarm set at 7:30. So I get up at 7:30 I’m kind of out the door, by 8:30. taking the kids out to school and and then I get I have an office space. So at least an office space that I that I have as kind of my own creative space. And I can take calls and I can meet people and I can do my own thing away from the home. So I kind of my office space, I spent a little time in the morning, doing scripture study. So I like making sure that I keep spirituality in my life and making it a priority. So it’s, it’s the first thing I do is dive into scriptures for 30 minutes, 45 minutes just depends where I’m where I’m going, and how I feel that after that I try to do a little bit of exercise. So yoga, I like doing yoga, it’s easy. And I’m not a young buck anymore. So I’m not trying to pump iron, but just trying to stay here No, not injured. Yoga does does well for me. So I have a little yoga room that I set up. And I do if anybody’s looking to do yoga, YouTube, and there’s Yoga with Adriene. It’s the greatest channel ever. And she just has like 30 Day Yoga, and I pay for the YouTube premium, I’ll have ads. But Yoga with Adriene is like the best channel, it’s so good. So I do Yoga with Adriene. And then sometimes I’ll go to the driving range, you know, and hit some balls or go to the gym. And so I tried to get that physicality out in the morning. And then sometimes, you know, I’ll I’ll kind of book my weeks and spread out calls because there’s always people that want to chat from the EC from the ecommerce groups. And I’m kind of still right in, so to speak. And so I just had one set up for tomorrow. So I’ll have a call with a guy who wants to chat and I had a call a couple of days ago with a Shark Tank company and they wanted to reach out and chat. And so I can stagger kind of calls and helping other entrepreneurs, I’ve kind of feel like a few, a couple a week is enough for me at this point. And I’ll spend time doing that and then grabbing lunch with a friend. And then before I know it, you know, I’m picking up kids from school and go into their basketball games and soccer games, and then it’s dinner with the family and hanging out at night. And so it’s it’s kind of a, you know, a pretty lax pace. But I enjoy it. I feel like I I you know, the default in me is to like go do more especially after I just sold a company you feel really antsy and you feel like, you got to do something because everybody’s asking, like, what do you do a grind do with your time it’s like, well, it’s a new norm for me. And it’s hard for me to say like, like, I do everything that anybody else would ever do. Except I don’t have to do the work part which cuts out a lot of hours in the day. Right? Because for those that are working long hours, there’s a lot of time in there right that you that you now have back to yourself so what do you do with it, you know, I plan I plan trips and I I built a home that that we have as a vacation home so I spent time working on building that home and take caring taking care of my home here and you know, running errands and you know, paying bills, everything that just everybody tries to cram on the weekends and get in I kind of have the whole right to do it. So that’s a good way to put it. That’s kind of the pace I go at

Joshua Chin 9:55

and and who do you hang out with? Because not not everyone could afford it. Take no day off in the middle of the week to hang out.

Spencer Jan 10:05

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, oddly enough, there’s, I’ve been lucky in this area, there’s, there’s a handful of guys that are more flexible in their, in their day to day, some have had exits. And so you kind of find people to hang around with, I have a small group of friends that I can call up and go golfing or older guys that I’ll go fishing with. And they have a golf group as well. And so you find people to hang out with, but that social aspect for sure is important. So I’m trying to make time to hang out with people.

Joshua Chin 10:39

When we met in blue ribbon, you mentioned that your obsession at that point in time was fishing. And really, that’s that’s what you that’s, that’s all you want us to do. And now, it seems like that’s that’s shifted a little bit to golf.

Spencer Jan 10:57

So, ya know, I still do fish a lot. Fishing has always been since I’m a kid, since I was a kid. I fished a lot. So fishing is still in there. It’s always in there. It’s just kind of picked up golf to kind of give me a new challenge. So yeah, yeah, you know, it sounds funny, because it’s like, Oh, these are just hobbies that people do. But when when you don’t have to have the stress of operating a company, you know, these things kind of fill the gap. And, at least for me, it filled the gap for me in terms of like a pursuit. And I think for me business, and entrepreneurship was just that it’s just a pursuit, it was a chase, it was a game that was easy to keep score, right, because you have a p&l, and you can watch the numbers tick if you’re doing the right thing. And so I was very motivated, when it came to running, starting and running a business because I think just that it was a pursuit, and I’ve always had different pursuits in life. A lot of them, you can consider them hobbies. But I think back on my childhood, and I spent a lot of time like skateboarding. And we would just spend me and my brother, we would spend hours and hours every day working on one trick. And just we would be out there after school till the lights turned on in the streets and it was dark. And we would still just go go go just jumping off boxes and trying to perfect these things. And at another time, I would like I pick I remember, I picked up archery. And I would just shoot arrows in my basement and you know, set up this kind of Mini range. And I would just be there hours and hours and hours. And I think my personality is kind of that way as I’m, I’m kind of I can I get easily obsessed with something. And I just want to like, conquer it and perfect it. I was never good with team sports, because I was always like, gravitated towards individual pursuits. And I think that’s why entrepreneurship for me was really, I really, I did okay in it, because there was that individual pursuit of just chasing something down. And now since you know, business and entrepreneurship, I can kind of put aside, I’ve just moved on and fill it with other things that I guess other people would call hobbies, fishing,

Joshua Chin 13:15

where do you think that obsession comes from? How was it like growing up?

Spencer Jan 13:23

Yeah, I don’t know where it comes from. I just know I’ve always had it right when I get into something, because I think about when we grew up, and I spent years and years skateboarding, we would, we would watch skate videos on VHS. And we would get skate videos from the skate store. And we would just rewind them and rewind them and rewind them and like watch them frame by frame by frame to understand like, how is he you know, doing this, you know, your backside kickflip or whatever. And we would just watch it frame by frame by frame like me, my brother would watch it. Yeah, nobody would talk. We would just like study it and just be like, Okay, now let’s go. Let’s go try it. And let’s figure that out. And so I don’t know what it is. I think it’s just a personality trait of like, obsessing over something and just wanting to perfect it. Fishing is the same way. Because fishings very difficult. Every time you go out on the water, it’s a different temperature. It’s a different season, the fish are in a different pattern. Their location is always different, like what they’re honing in on at that time is different. And so it’s always a chess game. And to figure it out quickly, you need to you need to read the water, you need to know where the fish are. And then you take it from lake to river to fly fishing to just if you’re using a baitcaster spinning gear like it’s totally different. And so that’s why I love fishing because it always changes and it’s always a challenge. And I think yeah, that’s always it’s always been attractive to me.

Joshua Chin 14:53

This is this is really fascinating to me. So you have a you have Uh, at least from from my perspective, it seems like achievement and conquer conquering stuff. That’s, that’s what drives you. That’s why it’s really important to you. And you, you look out for opportunities where you could perfect something or hone a craft, when you were growing Solo Bands that was the source of Solo Brands that that was it. Now it’s these projects. And how do you think about that that transition? And would you ever go back into business again, and start a new company?

Spencer Jan 15:45

Yeah, I mean, never say never. But at this very moment, I don’t have a lot of drive to go do that. To start another business, I think because I feel like, I’m okay with how things kind of turned out. And I feel like we’ve climbed one of the tallest mountains out there, that to go back and like try to climb or find like a bigger mountain to climb. doesn’t do a whole lot for me. Because I think I remember I was listening to a podcast today. And I remember hearing the founder talk about how he, if he was going to go do it again, he would want to go even bigger, yeah, billion, like, multiple billion dollar company. And to me, I don’t feel like more numbers makes it any bigger, not necessarily any bigger of a challenge. It’s just, it doesn’t make it any more attractive to me to try to go conquer I feel Yeah, businesses business. And I feel like we, I gave it a decade of my life, you know, doing what we did, and building our company. And I don’t personally feel like I have anything left to prove to myself. And, you know, I don’t have, I like to think I don’t have a huge ego. So it’s not like I’m trying to prove it to anybody else. Like, that doesn’t do it for me at all. Like, don’t wear a badge saying I did XYZ. I feel like I did it from you know, for my family and for myself, and for my brother. And for those that were involved. I feel like we did it. And, and it’s time to move on. It’s like, what’s next? You know, what’s, I know, I can do that. But can I go? You know, can I go be a scratch golfer that’s harder at this point. And that drives draws me in a little bit more? Can I go catch a double digit bass? Right? Can I go, you know, fly fish XYZ River and do well on it and understand it? Like, I think those things draw me a little bit more. So you can call it burnout, or whatever it is, I think you just have different seasons in life. And for me, there was a season where business and entrepreneurship was it. But I feel like I’ve I’ve that seasons kind of changed a little bit for me now. And I don’t know if it’ll come back. But for now, yeah, I’m very content.

Joshua Chin 17:57

You you have, you have what I think I’m pretty sure someone said this, like some philosopher or something you have what most people don’t have. And what you have is enough. That’s what people don’t have. I think that’s, yeah, really interesting to see. Especially coming from just personally. Being in the journey, it’s it’s really difficult to envision what life is like, not thinking about work all the time. And owning a business is kind of like like that. So one of the things that you mentioned, Spencer, and when we had a conversation back in back in May of last year, and also in a couple of interviews that you’ve done, is that you’ve never really you never really resonated with the hustle culture of just working super long hours and, and grinding all the time, weekends and stuff, you kind of want a time for yourself and you respected a time that you were working worked really, really hard. But you also respected the boundaries of that. I want to hear your thoughts on. And you speak to a couple of quick number of entrepreneurs as well. Your thoughts on that mindset versus the drive of wanting to achieve which is pretty common and entrepreneurs that I I’m impatient and I want to get to get things done quickly and I want to achieve a lot but at the same time respecting the boundaries of work and having balance in life. How do you juggle that as you’re growing Solo Stove?

Spencer Jan 19:48

Yeah. Yeah, I don’t think we’d I can’t profess that we did it very well. I mean, it was always aspirational. And it’s always what we wanted and in the back of your mind, that’s right. That’s the goal. And I think be cuz we had a hard time juggling, we went down the path of selling it because it was more of an outcome and an exit and, and, and a light at the end of the tunnel when things started to become very unbalanced. So by no means do I profess, like we had great balance, but it was always something we were trying to achieve. And I think it’s just really understanding or really kind of articulating to yourself and to your business partner or to your spouse’s or whatever, what, like, why are you working so hard? Like for what? What are you trying to achieve? And I think those motivations are the motivations if they’re true, and deep enough, those are the motivations that get you through hard times, right. And so, for me, those motivations were my time back, if if I’m my own boss, right, we always had this idea, if I might, my own boss, I get to control everything, including how much I work. And to a certain degree, that’s true, it’s just, it is difficult because the buck stops with you. And if you don’t have a big team, you got to do a lot of the work. And a lot of that spills over into the evenings into that weekends. And, and we found that to be really true. I mean, we bought into the four hour workweek, but we quickly felt like it was this, it was a pipe dream, or it was kind of an illusion that we would never achieve. Because while we kind of achieved it for a small short time, where we were like, yes, we got the lifestyle business, and we got our time. It quickly snowballed into something bigger, where we had to hire more people and deal with more, because business was good, right? We were doing well with the business. And that just meant it was growing, which meant it was more work. So I feel like I feel like it’s a it’s always been important for me, I don’t like trying to find balance and trying to spend time with your family and all of that I you know, it’s always been very aspirational and stuff that we’ve always tried to make business dishes decisions around and kind of guided by that principle, and feel like we did fairly well, I feel like my brother actually did better than I did in really setting up boundaries and saying, like going home at five. And there were times where I would just be like, oh, like why are you leaving right now, like, I get that it’s five, but we have so much to do, and can’t you just stay for an hour. But he was really good at setting those boundaries, I don’t think I was as good. And I feel like that’s what led us to, you know, thinking of selling the company, because we’re like, this isn’t President serving our life. So, you know, when it comes to achievement, we never set out to say we wanted to achieve, you know, a certain number interesting profits or revenue or whatever. We’re always talking about achieving our time and owning our time back. And what does that take? And how do we get to that spot? And that was always the goal for us. That’s always what we focused on. You know, you mentioned patience, and and I think that is something that is a can’t be overstated, and it’s yet undervalued, kind of? I don’t I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s easily. I don’t know if it’s easily like, it’s so because patients to one person might not need patients to another right. But somebody be like, Yeah, I’ll be patient for I’m super patient, and that person waits, you know, he’s only willing to do it put in time for a year and the other person’s like ammo, I’m somewhat patient, and he’ll do five years, you know, so I think it’s very subjective. But for sure, nothing comes quick when it comes to business. And if it does, it’s the exception to the rule. And those you know, those kinds of businesses that are like grow super fast, and you know, those make the headlines real easy, because they are the exception to the rule. Most business take a long time. And ours took a decade, close to a decade to build and so yeah, slow and steady for us always was was the motto and and I think it was helped by us not caring about what other people were doing. Like we didn’t attend any seminars, we didn’t attend any masterminds, or we like we never met any other entrepreneurs, though. That’s crazy. We were doing and I don’t know if that was, yeah, we never i The only time I started going to like conferences or meeting people was okay. Because we were always very secretive about like what we were doing. We didn’t want anybody looking at shots and what we were doing. We felt like we we had different skills and tips and tricks that we learned that why would we want to share it with anyone else? And so, and because we were so busy that we were just like, put your head down and just keep walking. There’s so much to be done. Why do we need to go meet and hang out with people and have dinners with other people and yeah, we kind of put blinders on and put our heads down. Really didn’t know what anybody else was doing. And then by the time we got through it, we’re like oh, we did. That’s good. Like, but I think if you meet other people and other entrepreneurs, they’re going to tell you like everybody’s going to try to, you know, make up for their insecurities and tell everybody how well they’re doing. And that kind of creates that FOMO and other people, right and can quickly lead you to make decisions that maybe you wouldn’t have otherwise made. Because you heard somebody is doing really well in this business, and they made these decisions. And so maybe I should go do it. And so I’m a big proponent of just put your head down. If you’re a good entrepreneur, you should know what you need to do. For the next how many years like, for me, I had this ever growing list of to do’s. And if, you know, if I’m just sitting around not knowing what I should be doing, then I think I’d be destined to fail. And any entrepreneur who doesn’t know what they should be doing is probably destined to fail. But if you know what you need to do, you just don’t have the time or you’re just not efficient, or you just you need to work harder and smarter, then there’s no need to like, go, you know, venture out and and go chase all the shiny objects and listen to all these different things that could kind of become distractions if you’re not careful. So I guess that’s

Joshua Chin 26:12

that’s a, that’s a contrarian, contrarian view and aligners, I think most people would say, go talk to people, go go network, go get differing opinions, right, broaden your point of view, I think what you’re alluding to is that most people wouldn’t tell you the full story. And it’s going to be littered with just crap and noise. From what I’ve gathered from just talking to you, and just interacting with you in my research and watching your videos, you’re not going to come across, comes across as a straight shooter, someone who understands signal from noise, pretty well. And you’re you’re kind of, you’re really direct, and you’re straight to the point, and you’re not afraid of kind of rubbing people the wrong way or saying the wrong thing. You see it as it is. Is that just who you are? Or is that something? Is that a skill that you’ve kind of had to hone and develop over time?

Spencer Jan 27:22

Yeah, I don’t know. I think it’s probably more just a personality trait, I think. I am not a very complicated person. So you know, thinking through things, the the easier it is to understand. The easier it is to execute in my mind. So it’s, for me, I like to keep things simple. And just not complicated. So I think that’s served me well. As I’ve looked at, you know, business decisions or situations that might seem daunting or complex, and just trying to simplify it down to like, Okay, what do we need to do? Like, what is the actual problem? And how do we solve it? What do we do? And let’s just go do that. And so, I don’t know, I think you don’t, you know, business isn’t as complicated as people can make it out to be. I feel like, everybody wants to sound smart. But really, you just got to put one foot in front of the other and just keep going. And let those efforts compound for like 10 years, and you’ll have a great business. That’s kind of how I think about it. I don’t I don’t know if I’m necessarily smarter than the next. I think I just kind of keep it keep it simple. And for me that that makes it easy to then go execute and put, you know,

Joshua Chin 28:35

that’s really interesting to hear. And I think this comes timely, timely, timely, timely conversation for me. I know you don’t mean it as an advice, but I am taking it as an advice. That patience means being consistent and keeping up with the effort over an extraordinarily long, long amount of time. And not looking for the next hack or the next tip or the big thing. And that’s a that’s a trap that we get caught into very quickly, I think in the DTC space just because it’s changing so quickly, and new channels are coming up and new tools and tricks and, and it’s easy to get distracted. So timely. How you Yeah, I think there’s a Yeah, go. Odd one

Spencer Jan 29:34

more thing there. Because I think you know, one of the things my brother would always say is like, and I think it’s a Charlie Munger thing because he’s a big Charlie Munger, right. Warren Buffett kind of,

Joshua Chin 29:44

okay, so you see you guys, you guys in the middle. You read a lot. Is that how you got new information?

Spencer Jan 29:51

Yeah, my brother, my brother read more than me and he would share a lot. Yeah, he would share a lot with me. I’m not a huge reader. But I would always you know, I pick up a book here and there. But he would always say like, if you just keep your expectations, if you set your expectations really, really low, then you’ll always feel great about yourself. Like, you’ll always, you’ll never be disappointed. Yeah. And so for us, that was kind of it if what’s funny is like we, you know, on paper, it looks like we had this, it was an amazing success from a business standpoint, and an outcome. But our expectations were never, ever close to being that high. They were so low, that, you know, any small win, we just be like, over the moon be like, Oh, we’re doing awesome, because we didn’t care about what anybody else was doing. And we set our expectations pretty low, that it just was easy to stay in the game that you feel like you’re winning all the time. And so instead of having like these far out, like, I want to exit for X amount of dollars, or build it whenever we never ever thought about that. And it wasn’t but it wasn’t like, Oh, don’t think about that, I want to think about that. But let’s not think about that. It was just, it wasn’t even in our mind of like that could ever be a possibility. We’re just like one foot in front of the other. We know what we got to do today. We know we got to do tomorrow and next week. So let’s just go do and kind of enjoy the journey along the way and have those small wins as we just kind of set our expectations really low. So I think patients that kind of goes along with patience, and that you got to stay in the game for a long, long time. And so how do you do that kind of just, you know, you got to be more steady and even keel. And I think part of that is just with expectations. You know, you don’t put too much on yourself as in terms of achieving this great big grand outcome. That it’s just easy to just look at your to do list and say, Okay, I know what I need to do. today. And tomorrow.

Joshua Chin 31:50

I keep telling people as a joke, that my favorite quote is from a from a TV series called Modern Family. If you’ve watched that show, it’s pretty popular. It’s a it’s a sitcom. And the main character, Phil, Phil Dunphy said this one episode. And that just caught my attention is that the secret to happiness? is low expectations. And the secret to a happy marriage low expectations. I mean, it’s just kind of I guess it wasn’t him. It was Charlie Munger. But But yeah, great, great. perspective. So how did you roll rules differ between you and Jeff, your your brother? And did that change over time?

Spencer Jan 32:41

Yeah, while we were building the company, for sure, for sure evolves and grows over time. I mean, at the beginning, it was just let’s get a lot of things done. And we were just split up, you know, whatever needs to be done. And do you want to do this? And do you want to do that? And I think we just gravitate towards what we were interested in doing. And so if somebody had an idea, then generally that person would go do it, because they’re, like, well, so your idea, you seem excited about it, go do it. Okay. Then if it was my idea, we’re like, okay, I want it, I think we should do this. Alright, great. Go do it. And so it was just a lot of that there wasn’t like this hard line of division in terms of, you know, who should do what I think later, when the company grew, and we had more people, there’s definitely more of that, trying to divide it up by teams and departments and trying to do it together. And, you know, I’ll be the first to say, we probably didn’t do it very well. But it was, it was a matter of like, well, what do you want to do? Are you interested in doing this? And then and then to are you good at it? For instance, I did a lot more of the supply chain stuff, because I had all the experience with China and I can speak Mandarin. And, you know, I was able to communicate with that side a lot better than my brother. And so my brother would take some of the other stuff like fulfillment, or some of the operation stuff, or the some of the marketing stuff, and we both work on customer service. So, you know, it’s just a natural kind of gravitating to what you’re good at. And we just kind of knew what each other was good at. And so we would just kind of split the work that way. And then of course, as the company grew, and we would have to divide by by departments and do that, but we did a lot of stuffs just kind of in step always kind of communicating with each other. Like, this is how it’s going. What do you think, what do you think I should do? And then, you know, be a sounding board for each other. But we weren’t. Yeah, we did things pretty in step pretty in line, did a lot of things together made a lot of decisions together. For instance, when we when we decided to put our fulfillment center and bring it all in house and create our own fulfillment center. We went out and we saw the places together. We talked about all the all the places what we would need, we designed it out together, we design all the offices together, we just do it together. Part of it was, was because that’s just more fun for us. And, you know, business is business. And there’s probably like, very efficient and smart ways to do it. But I’d rather do it the way I want to do it. And I feel like that’s, I mean, if anything, that’s the Liberty you get when you own your own business is like, you get to do it however you want. Nobody can tell you it’s wrong, right? You don’t have a boss saying, well, that’s not very efficient. For me, it’s like, yeah, I know, it’s not efficient, but it’s fun. And, you know, if anything I’m going to have, I’m going to try to make it the most enjoyable, you know, situation and circumstance that I can. And if that means it’s not efficient, I don’t care. Like it’s fun. I’d rather do it fun and have fun along the way. So that’s kind of how we did it, which, obviously, as we looked to sell the company had to had to change. And that’s the whole, you know, the whole process of enterprising and, and getting it ready for sale. And that’s more of a not fun process for us because it was counterintuitive to what we thought would be fun.

Joshua Chin 36:12

And you took a relatively different route to to most, I think I I, I kind of see why. And I think a lot more entrepreneurs need to do that. But not many do it because of ego because of just nine of self awareness or something. But you hired a CEO pretty early on in your journey. Before, before selling the company.

Spencer Jan 36:42

Yeah, I mean, we Yeah, before selling, I wouldn’t say early on. We actually hired him about six months before we sold. And so six, yeah, was six months.

Joshua Chin 36:53

Was it a part of the process?

Spencer Jan 36:59

We signed an LOI? I guess? What do you mean part of the process? Like part of Yeah, it was part of getting ready to sell.

Joshua Chin 37:03

Okay. Okay. So you knew that you were going to sell and then went out looking for a CEO? Yeah. Okay, so I’m mistaken. Okay.

Spencer Jan 37:12

Exactly. Yeah. So we knew that that was the so the management team is, is was key for us to be prepared to then go to market and sell. Because we want it to be as founders wanting to step out of the operations, we obviously needed somebody in there to be the man who would be running the company, you know, after we exited. And so we try to make that transition before we sold and bring someone on. And so so that when we went to market, so to sell, we would say, hey, look, you know, we’re the founders, we’re not running this anymore. And it’s in great hands and poised for growth. And it’s grown beyond what we can even do. So, you know, the business doesn’t need us or the fact that US selling and, and leaving the company has zero effect, if anything, right, better for the business that we’re not. That’s very nice. So it was very intentional. Very plan. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

Joshua Chin 38:07

did you take a cut on your EBITDA to pay a CEO? Or was it kind of like, I was a CEO here, take my salary, I’ll take a step back. And you get a bonus kind of situation?

Spencer Jan 38:25

Yeah. Kind of the kind of because you have different add backs that you can put back into the company. And I think the salaries that we had taken would obviously be no longer salaries in the company, and then him coming in, you know, was a salary, but I don’t think it was a big hit on EBITDA. I think we are even though it’s always growing. And so we were hiring at a healthy pace. So it wasn’t a matter of, you know, if we had zero employees, what are you gonna be better? Yeah, but you can’t do that been like why? For all your employees? It wasn’t significantly. That’s the right move. You obviously need them all. So yeah, I mean, I don’t think you’re, I wouldn’t think of it if anybody’s thinking of like, oh, I don’t want to hire because it’s gonna hurt my ego. I think, well, if you don’t hire, you probably won’t sell your company. So who cares about you know, your multiples and EBITA at that point, is definitely needed. You know, you have to build a company that has value and there’s value in having a management team in there that people believe in, so

Joshua Chin 39:21

and long along the way between. So in 2016 was when you first got the idea of Alright, maybe I could sell my company. Right? And when you finally sold it in 2019, there was massive growth between those two three years, right? massive growth. But in between, you could have sold as well to probably a thrasio type come with a around back then.

Spencer Jan 39:55

No, like all those aggregators, they were they were not there. So It wasn’t I don’t think there were those options. Maybe they were we just didn’t stumble upon them. Yeah, we weren’t, we weren’t thinking. So I mean, we got the idea to sell. And then we kind of hunkered down for three years and built the company to sell in the way that we thought was the best way. And that was to private equity. So we had our numbers that we wanted to hit, and we had an outline in our heads of how big the company needs to be, and how many people and kind of the system it is systematization of everything that, you know, we didn’t think too much about, oh, should we sell now or, you know, a year later, should we sell now we were just focused on we set a timeline, we said, we’re going to go to market at this time. So let’s not think about it, let’s just we got, we have to, you know, we have to do what need to do on our list for today, tomorrow, in the week in the month. And we’re very focused on just getting stuff done for a period of time, as opposed to constantly thinking, Oh, should we sell today? Or should we sell tomorrow? Or it was

Joshua Chin 41:01

that’s so interesting, because on one hand, you’re saying that, okay, you have these massive, ambitious goals that are aspirational in nature. And you kinda want to strive for the goals that you want to strive for. But at the same time, you’re balancing that with the dichotomy of having low expectations and not pegging your, your your self worth and, and joy on achieving that goal. I personally find it really hard to do, because when I set a goal, I, I take that personally, and when I don’t hit that I get really sad. And that’s how do you juggle that relationship? Or am I looking at it the wrong way?

Spencer Jan 41:50

Yeah, I don’t know, I think, you know, we had, I mean, the goal for us was to sell. And so it was less about how much we sell it for, like, we knew we were going to sell it. And, you know, to what, to what, valuation, we had no idea, because it’s kind of like selling a home, you don’t know what it’s worth, until you put it up right on the on the market, and you get starting an offer. So it’s less of a thinking my business is worth X, Y and Z. And so I need to achieve that. And I want that there was a more of just, this is what we’re doing, we’re gonna build our company, the best we can, we’re to create the most value we can and we’re going to do it by all these things that are in our control. And then we’re going to let the outcome come. And we know that outcome is going to happen roughly because we kind of set that time out there. So it was less pegged. Our quote unquote, success wasn’t pegged on a number or an outcome. It was more pegged on the on just kind of that journey of achieving all the milestones we needed to achieve. And the final one being selling. And so if we got, you know, $25 million, we’d be like, Okay, well, that’s what it was worth, we put in the time, we did our best, and that’s what we got. But if it was, you know, 100,000,200 300 million, then it would be like, Okay, that’s what we get to like, that’s what the market decided to give us. And so we’re okay with that. I think I think it kind of goes along, like, I’m just thinking of maybe an analogy, and it kind of goes along with my investing philosophy of just, you know, the Jack Bogle, Vanguard way of just buy low cost index funds, and let it compound over time. And let the market give you what you deserve. Right? Not anymore. Not any last, just whatever the market is willing to give you. That’s what you get. And I think that’s how we went about selling our company was just, let’s do everything in our control. And then the final valuation and price and outcome, well, that’s somebody else deciding, right, we can storytel and try to increase that value, but it’s what they give us. And so we never pegged it to that it was just, we’re going to sell our company and get our time back. And for us that was that was the bigger goal. And we knew we had that in our grasp. All we had to do was just, you know, check all the boxes and finish up everything that we set out to do and sell the company and we’d have all our time back. And, you know, we knew the financial reward would be there, to what degree we had no idea and it and it turned out to be a lot more than I ever.

Joshua Chin 44:18

Alright, so you hired a CEO six months before you you got to your LOI. When did your CFO come in? Because you had a CFO from private equity as well. And that probably helped quite a fair bit.

Spencer Jan 44:35

Yeah, but they did for sure about the same time. So maybe he came in after the CEO. So he was probably there for four or five months, four months or so before we started to really get into the process. Yeah, and he just came by referral and we met with him and decided he was a good fan. And he kind of it was it was a great. It was great that he came from private equity. Since we were selling a private equity, he was able to do a lot of the due diligence work that’s required and put it in, you know, all the spreadsheets that right, those those P guys need to see. Which I couldn’t write you.

Joshua Chin 45:13

That’s when it’s good when you’re really well, when you sold the first time, what was the EBITA that you were working with? You don’t have to tell me the exact numbers. But what was it like? Was it mid? Low? Eight figures? High seven figures?

Spencer Jan 45:33

Yeah, it was? No, I don’t think we were the eight figures. It wasn’t a hierarchy years. Okay, at mid seven figures around there. Right. I made seven figures. I think we were around there. Yeah. So it wasn’t a crazy, huge business in terms of of EBITDA. But, you know, growing good profit very quickly. And everything was was growing. And yeah, it was heading in the right. Yeah, heading in the right direction.

Joshua Chin 45:57

Was it like, was it doubling year after year? Or was it like a double digit growth thing?

Spencer Jan 46:04

Yeah, I don’t remember in terms of percentage, year over year, you know, people if they want, you can look up the s one, which is the filing the SEC filing that companies need to put out public, before they before they go public. And a lot of the year over year numbers are in there. So you can dig around on those s ones and see what all the numbers were. But it was good growth. I don’t know if it was 100% Every year or maybe even more than 2% every year for you know, for the past few years leading up to it, but it was good growth, and good, good trajectory. And, and that’s part of the puzzle, when you go sell a company is making sure that you

Joshua Chin 46:45

know, talking talking about hires just a quick segue here, before your CEO, and as you’re scaling between 2016 to 20 2018. What were the key hires that you made that Rata Where are their key hires that you made that changed the course of the business as you scale?

Spencer Jan 47:10

Yeah, I don’t think there’s one that’s like, you know, absolutely skyrocket your business, I think that’s probably not a not a not a good way of looking at it. I think every, every hire was a good hire, every position that we needed to fill needed to be fulfilled. And so you know, little by little brick by brick, everything was kind of put together. So all the way from the bottom up of customer service, you know, was that a key hire, it was probably the one of the lower paying hires, but for us, it was key, right? He would like freed us up from having to deal with customer service. And then you build upon that with graphic designers and marketers, email marketers, social marketers. I think we had a couple graphic designers. You know, someone over logistics, and, you know, just a handful of different people doing doing a lot of the digital marketing and then yeah, and then then you have fulfillment and warehousing, and all of that. So I mean, all of them were important. And all of them were good key hires. You know, we have what we have one guy that we hired, who was over graphic design that I think is now the Director of Brand or design at the at Solo, it’s awesome. And so he’s still there. And another guy that we hired was over performance marketing. So a lot of the paid media and paid ads and stuff. He ran, and he was a very early hire. And I think he’s still there and doing really, really good. And he got on the podium when we went public in the New York Stock Exchange. And it was so cool to see these guys that we hired do really well and kind of grow in the company. So yeah, all key hires, I mean, the skill of Solo. All these guys were key, I don’t think are they still a seller? Yeah, yeah, all those guys are still there. Right? It’s the same CEO. We hired. The same, the CFO has changed, but the former CFO that we hired is still in, in in the company, he’s now the President see a Solo Stove, that brand within the portfolio. So they’re all still there? And yeah, yeah, all good hires. And, you know, you get you always get bad hires, and you have to kind of filter through them and find good people to fill those spots. But

Joshua Chin 49:28

you mentioned you mentioned, you inspired me to implement the same thing in my company. EOS traction by Gino Wickman was the book and EOS is the framework entrepreneurs are up operation system, operational system. How much of your progress would you attribute to implementing that?

Spencer Jan 49:57

Yeah, it’s hard to put a it’s hard to put a A number on it. But, you know, we needed something as we were growing to kind of give us a framework to help us structure teams and hold people accountable. And that was that was super helpful. And I would recommend any small business looking to kind of grow and scale and build teams to kind of look at something like that. I know there’s a bunch of different ones but us for us worked well traction by Gino Wickman. And kind of the the implementation materials that you can get to help you kind of round out your teams and get people the right people in the right seats. All rowing in the right direction. That was super, super helpful for for us as we were growing the team. So yeah, I don’t think they use it anymore. I think it’s they’ve grown far beyond it. But for me and my brother as like, solo entrepreneurs trying to figure it out. That’s always a tough, tough spot to kind of grow beyond that initial phase of building a team. And how do you do it? And how do you keep it all organized? So yeah, US is a good one.

Joshua Chin 51:12

What is your most useful, in your opinion, most useful strength on hindsight, as you’re building Solo, and even till till now.

Spencer Jan 51:30

I think, I always feel like, I’d be a good mouse in a maze. Because, because for me, I just, I’ve, I’ve learned that there’s, there’s, I can always find a solution or a solution. If I just kind of keep flooding my head against the wall. And if it doesn’t work, I change directions and try something else, or call someone else or talk to someone else or, you know, ask dumb questions to the First 10 people and then on the 11th person, I can actually be, you know, hold an intelligent conversation. And I’m okay with not knowing how to do something, because I’ll figure it out by just trying. And it kind of sounds silly, but I think any entrepreneur needs to have that kind of mindset of just, you’re not going to know all the answers. But that’s, that’s the nature of the job. Like, if you want to be an entrepreneur, by definition, it’s just like, you’re the person that has to figure it out and try it and, and understand how to get things to work. I think for me, I wouldn’t say it’s a superpower. But for sure I’ve seen it’s, I’m, I’m different that way and that I don’t think things through to, to too much and too deep to be like, Oh, I really need to research this, this, this, this problem and come up with a really intelligent solution. I just go try it. Like push this button. If that didn’t work out, push a different button. If that doesn’t work, I’ll go ask someone, what buttons Did you push, then I’ll try those buttons. And I just and I just keep going and going and going. And doing it over so many years, I’ve just realized that kind of like the skateboarding, get stuff done. And there’s nothing really that’s ever popped up. Yeah, just try it over and over and over. And you know, not doing the same thing. But trying like tweaking something, changing it right, changing your approach and trying to attack it from a different angle or thinking about it a different way. And I think for me, that’s the that’s the kind of superpower that I brought to our, our dynamic duo of, you know, simple entrepreneurs, we were pretty, you know, I didn’t even study business. So I had no idea like when it came to like, owning, I would have to ask people because I’m like, I don’t even know, what should I be looking at here? Like, why and what does this mean? And but if you if you’re willing to ask a ton of questions, and just keep trying different things, you eventually get through it all. And I feel like 10 years of that it’s taught me Oh, that actually is a skill, you know, it’s actually a good skill to have to keep trying different things not getting upset or just being okay, not knowing how to do things. Because once you’re okay with that, and you just go about it and keep trying until you get it done. And, you know, go figured it out wasn’t that hard? So yeah, I think I think for me, that’s, that’s what I take. I mean, obviously, I feel like I’m good at sourcing products. I feel like I’m good at working with manufacturers. I feel like I’m good with understanding how manufacturing processes work and how machines work and all of that. So there’s probably, you know, other skills that were obviously beneficial to growing a business but

Joshua Chin 54:40

let me let me dive a little bit deeper here and this, this is a so I posted on my instagram. Follow me on instagram midway at Josh Chin with two ends. And I told the I told my audience I was going to interview you and I asked what questions should I ask Spencer? And there was a, there was a question I forgive me like, I cannot remember who posted this, but it was really good. What what are some of the things that you feel? You see that other DTC entrepreneurs might not? And that lets your success. Fingers I’m paraphrasing here. But so what are some of the things that you see that others don’t in the DTC space?

Spencer Jan 55:44

Geez, I don’t know if I do have certain things, you know, it kind of makes it sound like there’s there’s some secret thing that I know that others don’t I think everything’s out there. I see. I think the way I’ve always thought about DTC is it’s no different than regular retail. It’s just everything is is? is online. So that sounds stupid. But let me let me let me put it this way, when people are always like, well, what should I do? How do I sell and all this stuff? How’s think about it and say, well think of your your online store as any store on a street? And what do you need to do to attract people to come into your store to actually take a look? And, you know, if you think about it, that way, you can imagine maybe the ice cream store down the street, and somebody’s standing outside with maybe, you know, taste tests? And so Okay, well, if they’re using taste test to get people into their store to buy ice cream, how does that you know, how can you translate that into an online marketing tool? Right? How can you give somebody else taste test, so maybe free trials, maybe you get people to sign up, right that you can then give an offer something free of small value that kind of leads them in to get your their email address, so that you can continue to market to them? And I’ve always seen it that way. Because at the end of the day, I mean, when it comes to data, see, it’s just traffic, it’s just building traffic and finding and then optimizing conversions. And so for me, if there’s anything that I say, like, what do I see that others don’t, I just see it as really, really simple. Because you can easily get lost in the DTC world with all the buzz terms, and all these marketing tools, and all these data, you know, talk about data and analytics, and all these crazy things, that you got to have this plugin, and you got to make sure that your store has this because this leads, you know, it’s just, it can be, it can be very, you can become very disconnected with the retail shopping experience, that I just like to keep it simple and dumb it down to the simplest terms. And that’s just how do you attract more people? How do you get your traffic? And then how do you convert them? And so I always see it as, as it’s no different than a store on a street? What would you do? How do you get people into your store? When they come into your store? And look around? What are you doing to interact with them? Right? And then what are you doing to recommend things? What are you doing to understand who they are, and talk to them and meet them where they are, like, all these things? And then translate that online? Right? How do you achieve that online, and that’s how you start to understand, oh, I need this tool, or I need that tool. But where other people I think I’ve seen kind of get lost is that they see 1000 different tools and say like, Okay, I need all these tools to start doing it. Why? Why isn’t it working? And to me, it’s like, well, you gathered all these tools, and you have no idea what you’re doing with them. It’s not like you can just plug them in and suddenly you’re selling a ton. So I think it’s a matter of keeping things simple and just understanding that DTC, you know, it’s tech enabled, a lot of people feel like, you know, DTC is like a is kind of like, you know, this, this tech world, it’s not, it’s just, you’re selling something, right, you’re just selling one thing that somebody needs to use, and you just have to treat it, you know, in its most simplistic form. And if you approach it that way, I feel like you can come up with endless ideas of marketing tactics and different ways to interact with your customer and, and have reasons why and where that leads to in the in the journey of them buying something from you. I guess that’s what I would say. I mean, it’s not a secret, but I think if you simplify it down, it’s easier to understand then you build your list of two dues, right? And you’re like, now I got a lot of work to do and just start hacking away at it instead of feeling like there’s some magic hack to self healing a lot is something there is at least not necess stainable.

Joshua Chin 1:00:00

I love that. Let’s shift gears a little bit. Your your your life. Now moving forward, this is a journey that you’re you’re kind of exploring different paths and you’re, it seems like you’re really enjoying it. And what’s really interesting is that every time that I speak to you, you allude to your kids quite quite a fair bit, I think that’s really inspiring. I don’t have kids, but I’m just fascinated with entrepreneurs with kids, and how they think about raising the next generation. Because we’re, we’re kind of, we kind of think, a little bit differently than, than the crowd. And we leave lifestyles that are realistically really different from from people. That just in general, how are you raising your kids? Knowing what you know, now, that might be different from what people? What people do?

Spencer Jan 1:01:17

Yeah, I don’t, I don’t, that’s a hard one. I, you know, I don’t like to compare myself with, you know, others and in thinking that I’m doing it right. And they’re, they’re doing it wrong. I think anybody who’s been a parent knows that it’s a impossible task, it’s going to fly something that we all learn, you know, on the job, and trying to figure out, yeah, on the fly, and try to figure out what the, you know, what the best way is to navigate parent parenthood. And, you know, each kid is individual, each kid has a different personality. So it’s hard to say like, oh, you know, you should do it this way. Because it’s what I did with my kid or, or whatever. It’s a very tricky thing, and can be a very thankless job as well as you don’t see the ROI. So maybe way down the road, and maybe even then you don’t see the ROIs come back to you or you don’t feel like they’ve come back. But you know, I’ve always lived by or tried to live by a quote that, that I’ve heard, in my circle is that no success can compensate for failure in the home. And, you know, I love a book called, how will you measure your life by Clayton Christensen, who was a Harvard Business School professor, and he’s since passed, but he is a great book, and it really brings in perspective, just what’s important to you in life. And, and I think, well, business, you know, can teach you a lot of things. And it definitely has taught me a lot of things, I think, it’s definitely not required, you know, to be a really successful entrepreneur in order for you to be a really successful parent. And so I feel like, you know, the more time you spend doing anything, the better you’re gonna get at it. So if I spend more time trying to be a parent, then I feel like I have a better chance at being good at it. And if I go spend my time elsewhere, then I probably am spending less time trying to be a parent, I’ll probably be worse at it. So it really comes down to priorities and what you feel is important. And some people don’t have kids or choose not to have kids. And you know, there’s there’s not there’s, you know, that’s that’s these are individual choices, but I’ve decided that I want to be it a try to be a really good parent. And then that requires time. And that’s, you know, the one thing that we all have the same amount every single day. So, for me, it was, you know, how do I go about hernias, like one just spend the time trying. And I feel like if I’m doing that, that’s, it’s you know, it’s really all I can do. And that’s why I’m not really diving back into building a business or going off and doing crazy ventures, I try to keep my time focused on making sure that I am allocating enough to the family to kind of be a responsible parent.

Joshua Chin 1:04:13

That’s awesome. But yeah, that reminds me that reminds me of this interview that my friend Noah Kagan, who runs app Sumo, and he’s he’s big on YouTube as well. And interestingly, he’s, he does a lot of YouTube videos. And that’s kind of his his current obsession, and he doesn’t really well. He had a guest on where he interviewed who founded this company called Kinkos. A guy by the name of Paul, or failure. I’m butchering his name, but Paul, and he mentioned something that really caught my attention. He he said that success to him is having kids that when they grow up, they still want to hang out with you. And that was, I don’t know why, but it was really profound. I mean, that’s, that’s really interesting to, to view, success as that when the guy sold his business for one and a half billion dollars, and eventually, that company became was resold for, I think close to 3 billion or two and a half. So very, very successful guy. And he’s in his, you know, a stage of his life where he’s not trying to build new things anymore. And he’s, it’s just a very fascinating conversation. But yeah, guys, guys, go check out the no Kagan’s YouTube videos. It’s really good. And I think that when you separate the entrepreneur from the parent, it becomes really interesting to think about, because your kids don’t necessarily care if you made a billion dollars or a million bucks from your business, they kind of just care about right? If you’re home, and if you’re there for their events and moments and occasions. So it’s, it’s interesting to think about, yeah.

Spencer Jan 1:06:19

Yeah, it’s very true, I think it’s just time, right. And that that’s why for me time is, you know, the, the greatest, the greatest thing that’s come out of an arc, my entrepreneurial journey is just a figured out a way to get all my time back. And I don’t think you have to have a massive outcome like we did. But to be able to wake up every day and say, like, I can do, I can use my time any any way I want. I think that to me, is is way more valuable than however many zeros are in the bank, you know, you this doesn’t. I’m elsewhere and you write like time with people you care about and doesn’t have to be your kids. It could be your spouse, it could be, you know, friends and family, or I think those are the most important things that you we have, while we’re on Earth. And I don’t think I don’t think on my deathbed, I’m really going to care what happened. In my, in my business life, you had a great time, and we learned a lot. And we it was a great journey. And it was great season of life, but I just don’t think I’ll be thinking about, boy, we really made a lot of money. He knows my last thought as I’m dying on my bed. Like, I hope that’s not my last slide, because that would be pretty, pretty meaningless. I think you’d care about who’s around you, and whose lives you affected and who you helped. And you know, and you know, who you love and who love you. And I think, to me, that’s probably worth worth working on, as much as you can. For entrepreneurs that are still grinding out there and try to find a balance, try to find time to, to do those things. Because if you know, businesses, and there’s no guarantee in it, for sure, right, it could go one way or the other. And you might as well have a good journey, and you might as well I’ve spent time building relationships that matter because if maybe the dollars aren’t there, at the end of the day, at least you have relationships and that’s probably worth more right than any dollar amount you could have. Although, you know, having having financial security is always a, you know, a goal, but you know, I think you have to, you have to really look down deep and, and spend time in those places that you know, are important, but times are hard to you know, it’s easy to produce crisis when those areas fires are burning and things need attention.

Joshua Chin 1:08:54

Yeah, yeah. All right, final question and then we’ll wrap up but I know that you don’t talk about this a lot, but you spent a lot of your money on on charity work and giving back to your school, to your community to your church. And I’m curious about how you think about your money. How much are you investing that money? How much are you planning to give to your kids are you not giving anything to your kids well, what’s your thoughts on money?

Spencer Jan 1:09:31

Yeah, I think where do you start? I think for me I try not to put at the forefront of everything you know, it’s it’s sufficient for our needs and I feel like that’s that’s great you know, you don’t you don’t sit around and just you know, it’s funny because I just watched with my son we just finished watching the Hobbit. You know, the three the three Read it and, and, you know, at the end, you have this, this dragon who just lays around and all this gold. And then the hobbits that want to go back and take take over the gold, and it kind of consumes them. And there’s this weird, you know, kind of play on how this gold changes people and, and how it’s evil, I don’t think money is evil, but it can definitely, it definitely amplifies kind of your intentions, right. So if you if you’re, if you really have a huge ego and really need the affirmation of others, and maybe you go crazy, and you go buy a whole bunch of supercars and a giant home and a yacht, and maybe you go that route, which probably isn’t great and healthy. I just hope that, you know, as it amplifies who I am, it’s in a positive light, including my kids as well. And maybe at a period of time, they’re able to use it to amplify hopefully, whatever good that they have, that they want to shed on the world. But I really don’t put it at the fore I try not to put at the forefront of things and just try to live my life as I would anyways, you know, I’m a pretty frugal guy, I, you know, I don’t, I don’t live too lavishly. And I feel like that served me well up till now. So why change it. And, you know, in terms of the kids and what it means for them, it doesn’t, I always tell them, they don’t, they’re not gonna get anything, they’re going to make their own way and carve their own way. And that’s the right way to go about it. Because the lessons they’re going to learn, you know, the struggles they’re going to have, those are the things that are character building, and, and it would be irresponsible for me to kind of take those opportunities to learn away from them by just making money accessible to them to just be able to solve every, you know, problems they encountered is probably not the right way to do it. So, you know, I’ve done my estate planning and set it up in a way that’s, that suits my needs and my desires for, for how I want things to kind of happen. But of course, you know, kids are young as they get older, maybe that changes, you know, I think I think you you kind of evolve with situations but I try not to have it be something at the forefront of our lives and just go about go about or go about our days. I remember hearing I forget where I heard it from but you know, one guy said after his big exit, and somebody asked the same question, you know, how does it change your life and says it doesn’t at this point, he says the only thing now is like when I go to the Mexican story, or a Mexican or avocado avocado, like you know, you get the extra scoop of expensive avocado Yeah, as like you wouldn’t before because it’s like $2 for a scoop of avocado, or guacamole. Yeah. But that’s that’s kind of it. Right? It’s at a certain point, it starts to lose its utility. And, and very kind of, you know, I think that’s a good thing.

Joshua Chin 1:13:01

It sounds like you’re not back to your own. It sounds like you’re not actively on what’s important, taking out your money to invest in companies and doing all these crazy things and taking more risk.

Spencer Jan 1:13:14

Now, no, you know, I worked so hard to earn it. Like why would I go about right? You know, putting it in risky spots to lose it? I think so no,

Joshua Chin 1:13:24

no crypto, no

Spencer Jan 1:13:26

way I go my investment philosophy, or crypto zero crypto, no, I don’t do curse. I don’t do any crypto I you know, I put did a little bit of real estate. But really, it’s just in in simple, a simple portfolio of, of public stocks and bonds, just low cost ETFs through Vanguard, and now it’s about preservation than it is about growth. And that serves me well enough to care about it a whole lot. And it does what it does. And I love that. And like he

Joshua Chin 1:13:58

said Spencer, what’s what’s your if you could have a embodying this idea from from Tim Ferriss, and I love this question because it kind of reveals what people think. Like they’re just general worldview. If you had a billboard that broadcasts instead, that piece of media information can be text, video photo to the entire world. What would you say? Will you put on a billboard?

Spencer Jan 1:14:32

Yeah, I think I put that quote that no success can compensate for failure in the home. And I think if we have strong homes, I think it makes the world a better place. I think it’ll breed better entrepreneurs. I think it’ll be you know, more kindness and bring more humanity in the world. And I think if if if homes are strong, then everything else kind of radiates outward from that. So Spencer, it’s what I would focus on.

Joshua Chin 1:15:00

How can people get in touch with you connect if you follow what you do

Spencer Jan 1:15:09

Yeah, I don’t play on social too much these days I did make some YouTube videos are also made aware and people can watch those but really just LinkedIn if the links the that’s probably the only place I check now and then is LinkedIn. So if people want to connect, they’re free to find me on LinkedIn just my name.

Joshua Chin 1:15:28

Perfect and links will be down below. If you’re on Spotify or listening to a podcast app. You can go to chronos.agency/podcast, I think, and you’ll you’ll see the latest episodes on on our page. Spencer, thank you for your presence, and your inspiration, your story. This has been amazing. And I’m glad that we did it. And all the best, and I excited to see what’s next in life for you. And hopefully we’ll get you on the podcast again sometime future.

Spencer Jan 1:16:05

Appreciate it. Thanks, Josh.


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